Average ObamaCare price: $328 per month.

Quote from Swan Noir:

Many who have made serious attempts to examine and quantify the cost/benifit equation believe that France is certainly among the world's best. It shocks the hell out of me that France can deliver efficiently but appearantly they can and do. Other countries in Europe do it pretty well (certainly at lower cost than here) but lets stick with France.
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"The health care system is the largest single factor driving France’s overall budget deficit" (See link above if you're interested)

Doctors earn much less. The whole damn system isn't run for doctors to feel entitled...
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I do think US doctors particularly the surgical specialists are paid "too much". They are highly trained and skilled of course but they're not freaking rock/sports/movie stars. (which I also think are grossly over compensated but I digress)

I did some reading on this aspect of our health care system a year or so ago.
The jest of it was that our post high school and medical school education is among the most expensive in the world. Hence doctors simply charge more than in other countries in an understandable effort to hurry and get themselves out of student loan debt. There is of course more to it than that. But this is definitely a contributing factor.
 
The South of Italy has rediculously primitive health care in many areas both urban and rural. I've been all over Italy and in many areas of Sicily. Anything South of Naples becomes questionable.

Yes ... health care is a drain of France but it is systemically a drain almost everywhere including here in the US. There biggest problem is not health care it is an overall economic system that does not work. They seem to think quality of life is everything yet forget that quality costs and it will sink them.

But the point is that our system is strangling economic growth. Resources are drained and we all know that for big parts of the populace outcomes suck. You say Japan encouages assembly line medicine as if we don't?

Quote from Lucrum:

"Conditions in Italy’s public hospitals are considered substandard, particularly in
the south. They lack not just modern technology, but basic goods and services; and overcrowding is widespread."


"The health care system is the largest single factor driving France’s overall budget deficit"


"Spain has fewer physicians and fewer nurses per capita than most European
countries and the United States. The lack of primary care physicians is particularly
acute"

"In Japan The reimbursement schedule for physicians creates an incentive for
them to see as many patients as possible. The result is assembly line medicine."

"In Norway Waiting lists are so long and so prevalent that the European
Observatory on Health Systems says that they veer toward “defacto rationing.”

"Essentially, the Greek health care system is funded through payroll taxes, general tax revenue, and bribery.

"As many as 750,000 Britons are currently awaiting admission to NHS hospitals" (2008)
Explicit rationing also exists for some types of care, notably kidney dialysis,
open heart surgery, and some other expensive procedures and technologies"

"Waiting lists are a major problem under the Canadian system."
U.S. patients are actually more likely than Canadians to receive preventive
care for chronic or serious health conditions"


"The broad and growing trend in countries with national health care systems is to move away from centralized government control and introduce more market-oriented features."
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I was just notified that my family's health insurance premium is going op ~50% in 2014 due to 'Affordable care act'. Reasons citing the 'change' in rate are that now the plans cannot be based on your health condition, that it covers substance abuse (I should start to drink/use drugs...) and others... My plan alone went up almost 70% (that's on top of last years 'usual' increase of 10%). I guess the affordability is out the window... or I guess I have to now subsidize someone who will get coverage but won't pay... I am thinking I am not alone getting such an increase...
 
Well, good for Mike. But I think it's important to realize that when I post:

"You say Japan encouages assembly line medicine as if we don't?"

The point of that sentence is not that I doubt you (or even Mike) as you opine on Japan's medical machine, it's that I am asking you about our various assemly lines of medical service. But, you knew that yet you act as if I asked you about Japan or about the refrence.

Why is that?


Quote from Lucrum:

No, Michael Tanner says it as posted by cato.org
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Quote from jelite:

I was just notified that my family's health insurance premium is going op ~50% in 2014 due to 'Affordable care act'. Reasons citing the 'change' in rate are that now the plans cannot be based on your health condition, that it covers substance abuse (I should start to drink/use drugs...) and others... My plan alone went up almost 70% (that's on top of last years 'usual' increase of 10%). I guess the affordability is out the window... or I guess I have to now subsidize someone who will get coverage but won't pay... I am thinking I am not alone getting such an increase...
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No, you're not. If we were forced to go with the exchanges we'd see a 175% INCREASE over what we pay today. That said, our current premiums will go up since we will now be FORCED to buy coverages we don't want or need thanks to Obamacare and it's mandatory coverages. Not sure yet what our new renewal premiums will be as we buy direct from a company and our policy expires 2/1/14 but they've told us in so many words it will be higher due to 'additional coverage' (mental health and all the other crap Obama mandated).

With 3 degrees in math, but not being an actuary, this is a math (i.e. financial) disaster down the road. The US cannot pay for this in any way, shape or form over the long term. David Stockman said today this will be the biggest entitlement program ever ... and it will be as more employers dump their employees into the system.
 
Quote from jelite:

I was just notified that my family's health insurance premium is going op ~50% in 2014 due to 'Affordable care act'. Reasons citing the 'change' in rate are that now the plans cannot be based on your health condition, that it covers substance abuse (I should start to drink/use drugs...) and others... My plan alone went up almost 70% (that's on top of last years 'usual' increase of 10%). I guess the affordability is out the window... or I guess I have to now subsidize someone who will get coverage but won't pay... I am thinking I am not alone getting such an increase...
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I spoke to a health insurance agent today. Starting January 1st, no one will be denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition. No more underwriting. You can most likely find a plan that will insure you effective the next day. I can see people cancelling their health insurance, paying the penalty which there is a cap, and getting insurance when they need it, since you won't be turned down for having a pre-existing condition. Just pray you don't have an emergency.
 
You are right, I am thinking of getting rid of my current plan altogether and find the cheapest one possible. Just keep it as coverage for catastrophic scenarios... The note I received made me so mad that I initially wanted to opt out altogether and pay the fine but now that the head cooled down I will probably stick with something 'just in case'. The cheapest plan that exists in my state (on state exchange) is as expensive as what I currently have (before the planned increase). So thanks to ACA, I will be able to afford the lowest quality plan for the same price as my current plan.
 
Quote from Swan Noir:

Well, good for Mike. But I think it's important to realize that when I post:

"You say Japan encouages assembly line medicine as if we don't?"

The point of that sentence is not that I doubt you (or even Mike) as you opine on Japan's medical machine, it's that I am asking you about our various assemly lines of medical service. But, you knew that yet you act as if I asked you about Japan or about the refrence.

Why is that?
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Within the context I believe that statement was made, I don't think and see no particular evidence we have "assembly line" medical services in the US. Though admittedly I spend very little time at Doctor offices and hospitals.
 
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