Average daily profit with $50K account?

Quote from RedRat:

Piggy, there are two different tasks:
1) Earn 10% per year
2) Earn 10% per year with maximum 2% DD. Under the restriction of 2%DD!

Again it is REGARDLESS of your leverage. The ratio remains the same, 10%/2% = 5. Or 250 000 / 50 000 = 5, period. If you leverage less you experience less DD but you DO NOT reach your profit target, period.

Let me give you another example.
There is a single stock on the market which you can buy. If you buy it and hold till the end of year you receive 100%, but meanwhile you experience a DD of 33%.
Now you want to make 200%, is it possible? Yes, you buy that stock with the leverage of 2:1 and at the end of year you receive 200% but your DD will be 66%.
Now you want to make 300%, is it possible? NOT. Because of when you buy this stock with the leverage of 3:1 you aim to receive 300% but your DD is 100% and you loss the entire position.

Is it so complex? I just have no other words, only swearing.
Now I know somebody will tell me that trading is different. That you not buy and hold but rather buy different assets and divercify your position. You might say you would sell the position during the DD and buy it back when stock will be in the UP trend. But I know what would be my reply. Stupidity is endless.
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Your obviously still don't get the fucking point, so save your arrogance for someone ignorant. Maybe it is because I didn't explain it cleary, but I don't think so. The 5:1 r/r that you deem so unachievable is not necessarily the case, what don't u understand about "10% on BP was an arbitrary number any way", say it is 5% or a 2.5:1 r/r, the point remains the same. IT DOES NOT MATTER what % u make, just how much $$$ u make.

I am not going to argue with simple examples that u took out of an intro to finance textbook, they are not applicable to this conversation. The way you view risk is funny to me, as if it were so quantifiable in TRADING. BTW it is entirely possible and realistic to avg $500 a day on a 50k account.
 
Quote from PiggyBank:

Your obviously still don't get the fucking point, so save your arrogance for someone ignorant. Maybe it is because I didn't explain it cleary, but I don't think so. The 5:1 r/r that you deem so unachievable is not necessarily the case, what don't u understand about "10% on BP was an arbitrary number any way", say it is 5% or a 2.5:1 r/r, the point remains the same. IT DOES NOT MATTER what % u make, just how much $$$ u make.

I am not going to argue with simple examples that u took out of an intro to finance textbook, they are not applicable to this conversation. The way you view risk is funny to me, as if it were so quantifiable in TRADING.
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I did not wrote that r/r 5:1 is unachievable. I wrote it is hardly achievable and most traders here will not receive it.
But you still don't get the point, that this ratio remains the same regardless of leverage. If you take small leverage your risks are low but also your return is LOW. I wonder to see how much (paper) money did you make today.
 
Quote from RedRat:

I did not wrote that r/r 5:1 is unachievable. I wrote it is hardly achievable and most traders here will not receive it.
But you still don't get the point, that this ratio remains the same regardless of leverage. If you take small leverage your risks are low but also your return is LOW. I wonder to see how much (paper) money did you make today.
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Are u retarded? I just addressed that. Use a 2.5 r/r then, it is still a $500/day avg (OP of the thread). NO ONE gives a fuck if their return is low, just that they get paid.

You are also assuming that everything remains static throughout the year. If u are averaging 500 a day, u will have doubled your acct after 100 days, so if you double your size, then u should be avg 1000/day. Obviously it is not this linear IRL, but this is how it works, do u understand?
 
Still nobody gets it.

Would you rather:

1. Make $100k a year on a $1M account

or

2. Make $50k a year on a $50k account


In #1 you make $100k but it's only 10%.

In #2 to get to brag to your ET buddies about how you made 100% in a year.

Percentage is how you measure performance of a fund or an individual stock that is being bought and held. "Hey dude my (insert mutual fund) returned 10% last year!! I'm stoked!!"

Day traders don't talk about percentage returns because no one gives a crap.
 
Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

Still nobody gets it.

Would you rather:

1. Make $100k a year on a $1M account

or

2. Make $50k a year on a $50k account


In #1 you make $100k but it's only 10%.

In #2 to get to brag to your ET buddies about how you made 100% in a year.

Percentage is how you measure performance of a fund or an individual stock that is being bought and held. "Hey dude my (insert mutual fund) returned 10% last year!! I'm stoked!!"

Day traders don't talk about percentage returns because no one gives a crap.
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There are many performance indicators which are well-known. First of all this is the Sharpe ratio. Then there is a "recovery factor" or yearly PnL divided by Largest yearly DD. Then there is a Profit Factor and so on.

Net profit is just one side, when you talk about net profit there is no information about risk involved.

Would you invest into the hedge fund which shows last year performance 20%? What if I add that during the last year the performance was 20% but WITH DD 80%??? Would it INFLUENCE your decision?

I see there are many neophytes in this thread. I leave. Your stupidity is endless.

I just wish to thank couple of guys in this thread whose oppinion I share. Only two guys on the last 5 pages: TraderZones and Bolimomo. If you were not here I would think that I lost my mind :).
 
Quote from PiggyBank:

Are u retarded? I just addressed that. Use a 2.5 r/r then, it is still a $500/day avg (OP of the thread). NO ONE gives a fuck if their return is low, just that they get paid.

You are also assuming that everything remains static throughout the year. If u are averaging 500 a day, u will have doubled your acct after 100 days, so if you double your size, then u should be avg 1000/day. Obviously it is not this linear IRL, but this is how it works, do u understand?
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Pig, I repeat my question how much money did you make today?
Today was a good day for myself, my strategy made 46 rounds and $1260. Do you have something to share except of your stupidity?
<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2771045 >
 

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Quote from RedRat:

There are many performance indicators which are well-known. First of all this is the Sharpe ratio. Then there is a "recovery factor" or yearly PnL divided by Largest yearly DD. Then there is a Profit Factor and so on.

Net profit is just one side, when you talk about net profit there is no information about risk involved.

Would you invest into the hedge fund which shows last year performance 20%? What if I add that during the last year the performance was 20% but WITH DD 80%??? Would it INFLUENCE your decision?

I see there are many neophytes in this thread. I leave. Your stupidity is endless.

I just wish to thank couple of guys in this thread whose oppinion I share. Only two guys on the last 5 pages: TraderZones and Bolimomo. If you were not here I would think that I lost my mind :).
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Rat, in this thread's OP is the question: can u avg $500/day on a 50k acct. The answer is YES. You can use all of the ratios and standards of measure that u would like, but it doesn't change the fact that it is possible/realistic. You are ignoring people saying that comparing a $Bil HF's % peformance to your own is trivial, same for the market. What can't you comprehend about that?

I gave you a scenario at a prop firm, if u don't believe me that is your fucking problem, go visit one and ask to talk to some profitable guys. Ask them about their sharpe ratio's and recovery factors lol. Perhaps some bother with these things, but I don't know any of them. Here is a standard measure of performance for intraday guys: cents per share.

And u keep talking about risk in certain terms. There are many factors needed to even estimate how much risk a trader is taking, and aside from having NOTHING to do with this thread, they are to numerous to list, and will vary greatly with strategy. FACT.
 
Quote from RedRat:

Pig, I repeat my question how much money did you make today?
Today was a good day for myself, my strategy made 46 rounds and $1260. Do you have something to share except of your stupidity?
<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2771045 >
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I haven't day traded in like 3 months, what does that have to do with the topic? Or do u just want to measure e-peens? Do u think that your screenshot somehow makes your misinformed opinion worth more than mine?

Also what stupidity asshole... if you refuse to believe what I KNOW, like I said that is your problem. Bottom line, you lost the arguement. I don't know where in my posts u find anything that is unbelievable/debateable.
 
Quote from PiggyBank:

Rat, in this thread's OP is the question: can u avg $500/day on a 50k acct. The answer is YES.
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Ok the answer is YES but you as well as 95% here will NOT reach it.
I trade 6 contracts intraday and my target is around $1000/day with lower then 50k account. But the reality is cruel. The realtime statistics of my system does not match historical and expected performance.

For my combination of systems starting with 50k account I would target for 200k per year, trading 10 contracts (without compounding). But the DD would be something around $30k or may be even $40k.

Do you have balls to trade 10 contracts while you have 80% DD? The DD may occure in the very first month.
 
Quote from RedRat:

Ok the answer is YES but you as well as 95% here will NOT reach it.
I trade 6 contracts intraday and my target is around $1000/day with lower then 50k account. But the reality is cruel. The realtime statistics of my system does not match historical and expected performance.

For my combination of systems starting with 50k account I would target for 200k per year, trading 10 contracts (without compounding). But the DD would be something around $30k or may be even $40k.

Do you have balls to trade 10 contracts while you have 80% DD? The DD may occure in the very first month.
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That's YOUR system and the risk YOU are willing to take. And hell no I wouldn't trade a system that I estimated could dd 80% maybe u should cut your size kamikaze. :D Your system certainly seems much more risky than trying to make 500/day on a 50k acct, so it is kinda funny that u don't believe me, or why u are even arguing in the first place.
 
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