Average daily profit with $50K account?

[1a2b3cppp]

Quote from Algo_Design_Kid:

I edited my previous post

So if I keep $1M in my trading account (because I'm lazy and don't want to transfer it to my bank account), and you keep $10k in your trading account because you transfer your winnings out each month, and we both take exactly the same trades using exactly the same position sizing, you're saying that we're experiencing DIFFERENT performance?

Dude, unused account balances don't matter.

If I have $1M in my account and trade 1 contract and make $200 per day, I'm doing exactly the same as you, even if you only have $10k in your account but you also trade 1 contract and also make $200 per day.

I just have $999,500 of unused margin sitting in cash.

It's not a fair comparison against hedge funds because they have billions but they don't keep a majority of it in cash. So if a hedge fund makes 8%, they were using most of their cash. Plus, you are limited with huge billion dollar accounts because you literally move the markets.

A majority of (smart) traders use only a fraction of their account size, so it's totally different.

 

[Algo_Design_Kid]

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

So if I keep $1M in my trading account (because I'm lazy and don't want to transfer it to my bank account), and you keep $10k in your trading account because you transfer your winnings out each month, and we both take exactly the same trades using exactly the same position sizing, you're saying that we're experiencing DIFFERENT performance?

Dude, unused account balances don't matter.

If I have $1M in my account and trade 1 contract and make $200 per day, I'm doing exactly the same as you, even if you only have $10k in your account but you also trade 1 contract and also make $200 per day.

I just have $999,500 of unused margin sitting in cash.

It's not a fair comparison against hedge funds because they have billions but they don't keep a majority of it in cash. So if a hedge fund makes 8%, they were using most of their cash. Plus, you are limited with huge billion dollar accounts because you literally move the markets.

A majority of (smart) traders use only a fraction of their account size, so it's totally different.

First I think that is a pretty terrible assumption in money management.

Secondly, you could move it to a money market account, but you already knew that.

Thirdly (is that a word, haha) - you do have different performance my friend if you determine performance on a percentage basis. I do. And that can skew your results etc. You knew that too I am assuming.

Fourthly (lol) - Hedge Funds just don't invest in equities and futures. They invest in anything, they dont need to worry about the liquidity of markets. I do not run one though so my input there is of a greenhorn at best. And they do not state what they exactly do in the prospectus as well. I do know that.

EDIT for FIFTHLY - you are not assuming risk in the $10,000 account. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally.

 

[MegaDeth]

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

So if I keep $1M in my trading account (because I'm lazy and don't want to transfer it to my bank account), and you keep $10k in your trading account because you transfer your winnings out each month, and we both take exactly the same trades using exactly the same position sizing, you're saying that we're experiencing DIFFERENT performance?

Dude, unused account balances don't matter.

If I have $1M in my account and trade 1 contract and make $200 per day, I'm doing exactly the same as you, even if you only have $10k in your account but you also trade 1 contract and also make $200 per day.

I just have $999,500 of unused margin sitting in cash.

It's not a fair comparison against hedge funds because they have billions but they don't keep a majority of it in cash. So if a hedge fund makes 8%, they were using most of their cash. Plus, you are limited with huge billion dollar accounts because you literally move the markets.

A majority of (smart) traders use only a fraction of their account size, so it's totally different.

You are an idiot. Take a basic course in finance before you "trade".

 

[TraDaToR]

Quote from increasenow:

I think one with a $50,000 account should be making $1k-$5k per day...the very, very , very least is $500 on a slow day

How is the spread trading going ? Did you finally figure out that you needed a reason to buy or sell an energy spread or are you still trading it for the purpose of trading a spread?

2 years ago, you sounded like 18. Now you sound like 15.

 

[Now is Now]

It is evident that neither Increasenow nor 1a2bcppp trade...let them fantasize, but one day I sincerely do hope they do pick up some morsels from this forum for when they do learn to trade...

NiN

 

[pwrtrdr]

Quote from JustDoingIt:

Elite Trader is a joke and laughing stock of the internet. I come here to check out the platform and broker reviews yet I always get pulled in to some screwed up convo. There is a big difference between an income trader and a trader that is seeking some yearly performance goal. Nodoji has been progressing and pulling consistent money from the markets($400-$600/day) with a 50k account and many of the same guys on this thread give her hell saying she is small time and should be bringing in higher daily average. Some of you guys are overcapitalized(aka more money than brains) and many of you are out and out frauds. When I began daytrading stocks back in 2000 the daily goal of each trader on the trading desk was 1% of buying power. When I switched to the ER2(old Russell2k) we scalped at 8-13 ticks per contract/per trade. Too many of you guys view your trading accounts as some damn video game where you are trying to get the high score and don't bother to extract profits on a weekly basis to cover your living expenses and to reduce the amount of capital you have exposed to the markets. I read Nodoji's comments and wonder why she wastes her time hanging in loserville known as Elite Trader and you can tell the biggest losers by the number of posts that they have accumulated as well as the uselessness of the aforementioned posts. And yes if you can't average $300-$500/day trading a 50k account you shouldn't be trading. This is an expectancy and frequency based business. a lot of you guys that are consistent losers aren't trading for money...you are trading to be right. Ask any broker or just ask any unprofitable trader and he will tell you that usually at some point during the day that trader was net positive and gave all the gains back and then some. Of course an Op that asks this sort of question obviously has no experience, screen time, nor trading skill and discipline necessary to trade so the whole point is moot. A 50k account can easily trade a 5-10 lot with no risk of margin calls etc. I am still wondering why I visit this 20 car pile up on the expressway known as Elite Trader because it is a very sad place. I guess there is a little masochism that exists in us all. There are much better trader blogs out here on the net where traders that actually trade share ideas and strategies and none of this I'll lose my edge nonsense that is commonly pushed on ET. Like anybody gives a damn about my 10 ES cars(damn pebble in the ocean). Trading is hard because it is a performance based business 99% of people are paid for their time not for their performance. Pressure busts pipes but it also creates diamonds. There is nothing to be ashamed of if you can't hack it as an income trader...hell I couldn't hack it if I had to sell insurance or some other BS for commission. Find what you are good at and just do it.

Best post on entire board

best.

 

[trade4ever2day]

Avg. $400/day on a 50K account? Hmm....possible. That is $2000/wk average gain or 5% weekly. Good return. It also means that you can find two other guys with 50K accounts and wipe them out completely. Alternatively, you can 50% drawdown four of such accounts. Normally, you should be able to 25% drawdown eight of those accounts since few will wait to to see their account drop 50%. Good job....possible, as long as you can find suckers around...but impossible in a market dominated by MMs.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from asiaprop:

no, i dont understand even the second sentenced and stopped right there.

a) you still contradict yourself in your previous post
b) why do you post if you dont care whether others get your point or not?

Unknown to you the last sentence said "Do not worry if you do not understand this"

You opinions are terrific for you to hold.

a. Again this is your opinion. My comment was simply an amplification of how trading works for others than you and your ilk. Trading works different ways for different people.

b. Caring is a complex topic. Intellectually, it is nice when people can grasp an idea and, perhaps, run with it or let it influence their growth and progress. On the other hand some belief systems preclude a person from considering anything outside of the walls they have built in their minds. Do I care if they built these; certainly. It is unfortunate for them and their families, etc.... But I do not care if they are stuck in the place they are; it would consume a lot of energy if I were to document why they have passed the point of no return or why and how this consequence occurred.

What I represent is a paradigm shift from the CW you follow.

That is why I introduced the up, down models. The contrast provides a major clue as to why there is such an emotional contrast. You couldn't read that far at this point in time.


It is very disconcerting to some CW practitioners to get a glimpse of an alternative. Basically, in corny parlance, often there is a sort of shoot the messenger. Look at the effort T666 makes to keep my messages he does not grasp, before the public. Others focus on creating a portrayal of me like in comic books. Dave Goodboy is also a portrayer of me from the viewpoint of a person who is unable to reason or use foreign words as descriptors; he does not even understand how any systemmic trading works as seen by his misuse of CW terminology.

You may stop reading this as you did the other substantive info you were provided. Other people may read it and connect with me in a conversation of some sort. So with respect to that, you are a just our foil in the picture.

A lot of different perfomance styles are out of the range of your possible consideration. Netto, Morge and TOS are examples. I could name 20 more.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from TraderZones:

Quote from jack hershey:

Or it could be up down ( Dom, Dom)

Or it could be up, down (Non dom, Dom)

...

For me it is a long, then a short.

The long is dom, non dom, dom. The following short is Dom, non dom, dom

both traders go through the same doms and non doms; on trader is always fooled the other trader is never fooled.

CW trader sequence: dom, non dom; dom, dom; non dom, Dom.

....

My sequence for the three market strategies is: Dom, non dom, Dom; Dom, non Dom, Dom.

...

All moves were up, down, up, down, up, down in that order of cycling. But the volume told the story in the cycle order of Dom, non dom, dom, dom, non dom, dom.

Does anyone ever get the feeling that Jack should have been a birthing instructor?

Don't worry if you do not understand these comments.

Jack, no one in the history of humanity ever understands your comments.

Thank you for giving readers another shot at reading the point I was making.

Your comments indicate to me that you do not get the point I made.

Some people do understand my comments. he CW trader does understand that he has anxiety, fear and anger as an emotional orientation. Lo points this out in the citations that you used to post. He does not, however, attribute the source of these emotions using TA or market analysis. Neither did you but I do.

A study of the causes of early exits, will reveal how the three CW patterns are the causal factor. You may not understand this because it is not a field you have participated in.

I like the manner that the examples I compared, clear to those who know of market dominance and non dominance (take contrarian or trend following traders, for example), involved a single commonly occurring order of events. It may be possible that you are unaware that trends are biased and why and how that bias occurs and how easy it is to detect.

One of the most important things is staying on the correct side of the market. Anther thing that is important in a trend is knowing that a trend has three moves. As important as anything is always knowing where you are in market cycles on any fractal level.

A person who knows how fractals nest also has an advantage.

All of these matters are available through searches. Many many successful methods deploy this kind of knowledge and the associated skills.

It may be that you did not develop the inference to be able to have the perception required to trade effectively.

Here is a snagit of six price and volume moves. Three short and three long. they are the most recent happenings on the market today. Six trades on the 5 min ES. None of them are in the range of what you think 50K can earn in a day. A day is 81 bars.

 

[1a2b3cppp]

Quote from MegaDeth:

You are an idiot. Take a basic course in finance before you "trade".

So why don't people subtract from their trading accounts in order to skew the profits then and impress everyone on ET?

If you have a $10k account and trade one contract and make $200 per day (entirely possible), that's $1k a week or approx $50k per year.

ZOMG 500% returns!!!

But if you've already got your living expenses squared away in another account, and you're lazy and don't feel like taking any money out of your now-$60k trading account, and you do the same thing next year (another $50k profit), then you only made 83% that year.

So going from 500% the first year to 83% the second year looks like you did worse the second year.

The truth is that you did EXACTLY THE SAME. You made $200 per day on 1 contract both years. Exactly. The. Same.

I'm not sure how else I can explain it and I'm not sure why people aren't getting this.

Assume two traders, trader X and trader Y.

Trader X trades 1 contract and makes $200 per day = $50k per year. Let this action be known as Z.

Trader Y trades 1 contract and makes $200 per day = $50k per year. By definition, this action is also Z.

Trader X's account size is $100k because he never takes any out because he's lazy.

Trader Y's account size is $10k because every month he takes out all his winnings to pay for hookers and blow and leaves a base size of $10k in his account.

Both traders' performances were Z.

You are saying that Z != Z. That's some crazy ass logic you got going on.


( != means "is not equal to" )