Average daily profit with $50K account?

Quote from volente_00:

I was trading both times when it went limit down. It did not open this way and there was plenty of time for stops to be triggered as long as you had them resting and not set under the limit down price. Of course you could get caught in a 9/11 type event but even then if I recall the dow opened -600 or around -60 es so he would have lost $3000 per contract or 27k of his 50k on an event like that. For this reason alone I know a few index traders who will only take shorts on overnights instead of longs.
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Yes it did not open at the bottom limit because Bernanke lowered rate and there was a pullback in prices just before the opening bell. After the open prices went lower but did not reach the low for the day.

When was the second time of limit down?
 
Quote from volente_00:

I was trading both times when it went limit down. It did not open this way and there was plenty of time for stops to be triggered as long as you had them resting and not set under the limit down price. Of course you could get caught in a 9/11 type event but even then if I recall the dow opened -600 or around -60 es so he would have lost $3000 per contract or 27k of his 50k on an event like that. For this reason alone I know a few index traders who will only take shorts on overnights instead of longs.
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What days were these?
 
Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

What days were these?
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Not exact - was late 2008 in the "z" contract I believe.. just search the internet

And yes I suppose you would be correct in stating (or whomever did) that this happened in overnight hours. You would not be worried about this the way you trade, but in the instance this did happen during our daytime session you would be hit for about half your account.

If you were position sizing and your acct. was at 100,000 you would still be hit for the same percentage.. so just be careful abc123 is all I am saying.. also GL of course
 
Regardless of account size. A realistic goal per day should be at least what your max drawdown is for that account per day. For a beginner, I think 2% of account risked per trade is a good idea just to keep them in the game so they can learn at a cheaper cost. As far as a daily goal it really depends on what you are trading. In futures using $500 margins, one can make 100% ROC if they are good. The key is to focus on consistency, not on hitting homeruns everyday. I will take the guy who consistently makes $50 a day anyday over the guy who takes huge risk to try and make $1000 a day from the same account size.
 
I think it could be reasonable, with 15k i do about 30 to 50 a day if i was to average it out across a month of working days. although this week has started off pretty shitty. i only mainly do swing trading though, because of account size and it just seems easier for me. shorting stocks has been the most consistant way of making gains but maybe im just a negative person. Ive only been doing this for a year and am finally starting to get back to where i was. took me a while to find something that works an i still have a lot to learn. got in short with laz at 36.35 and am lovin watching it die today :)
 
Read through the entire thread.

I think I understand the disconnect. The "percentage" folks don't comprehend how the "income trader" folks can bank consistent coin ($300-400 daily) on such a small account ($50k).

It's all about the leverage (and of course strategy). Prop traders know how to utilize strategies that require leverage to make consistent returns.

50k account with 20:1 leverage = $1million BP.

Don Bright's OPG thread has been doing it for many years now.

Transition from your 9 to 5 to Trading for a Living
A great majority of my traders engage in what we call the Opening Only Strategy that has been discussed here in the past. This is one of our most lucrative single strategies, and has been working well for decades. Our traders place orders to buy or sell short a number of shares at pre-determined prices, prior to the opening print on NYSE stocks. We go through a pre-market calculation to determine limit prices that we would like enter this trade….if the stock gaps up or down from the previous day’s closing price. For example, I place 2000 shares to buy and 2000 shares to sell short in about 50 stocks each day (Bright Trading places about 40 million shares of this “opening only” variety each morning). I don’t want to be filled if the stock opens at a “fair” price based on market conditions. I only want to be filled on gaps prices. I try to get about a 10-15% fill rate, giving me stock, either long or short, on 5-8 stocks on average. The big edge is that I know that if I am filled, the NYSE Specialist is also filled at my price, in my same direction, long or short. Over the decades, even with all the changes on the NYSE, this is still a true assumption. I take profits with an automated program, or cover losses when they happen, and am usually finished with this strategy within 5 or 10 minutes (rarely longer than that). Our new people have averaged a 75/25 win/loss rate within the first couple of weeks of their starting date. We have many traders who engage in this strategy, and nothing else, when Transitioning to a more full time trading career. This allows for a half our prep time and a half hour trading time. Many make a good 6 figure income doing this, and this alone. Great way to keep your job while augmenting income and/or preparing for the move to full time trading. This requires the “use” of capital that I described, but not the “abuse.” Using a $million or more to make $100k or more per year.
 
with a $100K account you should be able to do that, and then some, and with a lot less stock picks than DB is using everyday, or in relative terms to your own account assuming his is much larger and a combination of multiple accounts. it is unclear how he manages that strategy. picking that many stocks requires a hell of a lot of prep time premarket, and at 90% losers, that's a lot of stop losses having to beat to make a profit every day.

seems more like throwing the whole handful of darts at the board and hoping 1 or 2 hit the centre, instead of aiming one at a time...

your mornings should look this, pick a handful of movers, take your positions pre or at open, and get out when they peak. done for the day.

a $2400 profit on a $100K account at 20:1, i believe this is what everyone is bitching about how $5000 is just gambling?

but not everyone can do this, so i digress. just making a point what is possible with a little discipline.

09:15:00 AAPL SHORT 200 200 223.92 223.92 EDGX 09:14:58 914000014 0 0 -200 Filled
09:20:19 RIMM SHORT 100 100 73.92 73.92 EDGX 09:20:16 920000014 0 0 -100 Filled
09:20:34 RIMM SHORT 100 100 73.92 73.92 EDGX 09:20:33 920000024 0 0 -200 Filled
09:20:41 RIMM SHORT 100 100 73.92 73.92 EDGX 09:20:40 920000034 0 0 -300 Filled
09:20:42 RIMM SHORT 100 100 73.92 73.92 EDGX 09:20:39 920000044 0 0 -400 Filled
09:20:43 RIMM SHORT 100 100 73.92 73.92 EDGX 09:20:42 920000054 0 0 -500 Filled
09:22:14 CSCO SHORT 1,000 1,000 26.00 26.00 EDGX 09:22:09 922000014 0 0 -1,000 Filled
09:26:04 CSCO SHORT 1,000 1,000 26.01 26.01 EDGX 09:21:57 921000014 0 0 -2,937 Filled
09:26:04 CSCO SHORT 1,000 1,000 26.01 26.01 EDGX 09:22:20 922000024 0 0 -3,000 Filled
09:34:52 CSCO COVER 700 700 25.93 25.93 ARCA 09:34:48 934000074 53.67 53.67 -2,300 Filled
09:34:59 CSCO COVER 500 500 25.93 25.93 ARCA 09:34:55 934000094 38.33 92.00 -1,800 Filled
09:35:04 CSCO COVER 900 900 25.93 25.93 ARCA 09:34:57 934000134 69.00 161.00 -900 Filled
09:35:08 CSCO COVER 900 900 25.93 25.93 ARCA 09:35:03 935000024 69.00 230.00 0 Filled
09:35:15 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 7.00 7.00 EDGX 09:35:10 935000034 0 230.00 -1,000 Filled
09:35:21 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 6.99 6.99 EDGX 09:35:14 935000044 0 230.00 -2,500 Filled
09:35:24 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 6.99 6.99 EDGX 09:35:17 935000054 0 230.00 -3,750 Filled
09:35:26 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 6.99 6.99 EDGX 09:35:19 935000074 0 230.00 -4,000 Filled
09:35:30 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 6.99 6.99 EDGX 09:35:23 935000104 0 230.00 -5,750 Filled
09:35:32 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 6.98 6.98 EDGX 09:35:25 935000124 0 230.00 -6,000 Filled
09:35:38 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 6.98 6.98 EDGX 09:35:30 935000144 0 230.00 -7,000 Filled
09:35:45 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 6.99 6.99 EDGX 09:35:40 935000184 0 230.00 -8,000 Filled
09:35:50 MOT SHORT 1,000 937 MKT 6.98 EDGX 09:35:42 935000194 0 230.00 -8,937 Canceled
09:35:53 MOT SHORT 1,000 1,000 6.99 6.99 EDGX 09:35:46 935000214 0 230.00 -9,937 Filled
09:36:05 MOT SHORT 63 63 6.99 6.99 EDGX 09:36:01 936000014 0 230.00 -10,000 Filled
09:37:23 AAPL COVER 200 200 224.15 224.14 ARCA 09:37:19 937000034 -45.00 185.00 0 Filled
09:37:30 CSCO SHORT 1,000 1,000 25.94 25.94 EDGX 09:37:25 937000044 0 185.00 -1,000 Filled
09:38:15 CSCO SHORT 1,000 1,000 25.96 25.96 EDGX 09:37:32 937000074 0 185.00 -2,937 Filled
09:38:15 CSCO SHORT 1,000 1,000 25.96 25.96 EDGX 09:37:34 937000084 0 185.00 -3,000 Filled
09:41:29 RIMM COVER 100 100 74.24 74.24 ARCA 09:41:26 941000124 -32.00 153.00 -400 Filled
09:41:32 RIMM COVER 100 100 74.24 74.24 ARCA 09:41:29 941000144 -32.00 121.00 -300 Filled
09:41:35 RIMM COVER 100 100 74.24 74.24 ARCA 09:41:32 941000164 -32.00 89.00 -200 Filled
09:41:38 RIMM COVER 200 200 74.26 74.26 ARCA 09:41:36 941000194 -68.00 21.00 0 Filled
09:43:04 ITMN SHORT 500 500 37.99 37.99 EDGA 09:42:29 942000134 0 21.00 -500 Filled
09:43:08 ITMN SHORT 500 500 38.03 38.02 EDGA 09:42:01 942000024 0 21.00 -1,000 Filled
09:51:17 ITMN COVER 1,000 1,000 38.65 38.65 ARCA 09:51:09 951000034 -645.60 -624.61 0 Filled
09:51:34 ITMN BUY 1,000 1,000 38.62 38.61 EDGA 09:51:29 951000074 0 -624.61 1,000 Filled
09:53:32 CSCO COVER 700 700 25.90 25.90 ARCA 09:53:28 953000094 37.33 -587.28 -2,300 Filled
09:53:54 CSCO COVER 1,000 1,000 25.88 25.88 EDGA 09:53:47 953000194 73.34 -513.95 -1,300 Filled
09:53:58 CSCO COVER 1,000 1,000 25.88 25.88 EDGA 09:53:50 953000214 73.34 -429.61 -150 Filled
09:54:00 CSCO COVER 300 300 25.88 25.88 EDGA 09:53:57 953000234 22.00 -418.61 0 Filled
09:54:37 ITMN BUY 1,000 1,000 38.70 38.70 EDGA 09:54:32 954000044 0 -418.61 2,000 Filled
09:54:54 ITMN BUY 1,000 1,000 38.70 38.70 EDGA 09:54:49 954000074 0 -418.61 3,000 Filled
09:58:18 ITMN SELL 1,000 1,000 39.14 39.14 EDGA 09:58:13 958000034 466.87 48.26 2,000 Filled
09:58:23 ITMN SELL 1,000 1,000 39.14 39.14 EDGA 09:58:15 958000054 469.37 517.63 1,000 Filled
09:58:43 ITMN SELL 1,000 937 39.14 39.14 EDGA 09:58:24 958000064 439.80 957.43 63 Canceled
09:58:43 ITMN SHORT 63 63 38.88 38.88 EDGA 09:58:42 958000104 13.19 970.62 0 Filled
09:59:01 ITMN SHORT 1,000 1,000 38.90 38.90 EDGA 09:58:53 958000184 0 970.62 -1,500 Filled
09:59:04 ITMN SHORT 1,000 1,000 38.90 38.90 EDGA 09:58:56 958000204 0 970.62 -2,000 Filled
09:59:13 ITMN SHORT 1,000 1,000 38.98 38.98 EDGA 09:59:05 959000044 0 970.62 -3,000 Filled
10:00:22 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.04 7.04 EDGA 10:00:17 1000000074 -52.00 879.62 -8,250 Filled
10:00:24 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.04 7.04 EDGA 10:00:19 1000000094 -52.00 840.62 -7,500 Filled
10:00:27 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.04 7.04 EDGA 10:00:19 1000000104 -52.00 814.62 -7,000 Filled
10:00:32 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.04 7.04 EDGA 10:00:24 1000000124 -52.00 736.62 -5,500 Filled
10:00:35 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.04 7.04 EDGA 10:00:28 1000000134 -52.00 710.62 -5,000 Filled
10:01:04 ITMN SHORT 1,000 1,000 38.99 38.99 EDGA 10:00:59 1000000214 0 710.62 -4,000 Filled
10:05:34 UNG SHORT 1,000 1,000 8.11 8.11 ARCA 10:05:29 1005000044 0 710.62 -1,000 Filled
10:07:20 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.03 7.03 EDGA 10:00:05 1000000024 -42.00 579.37 -1,875 Filled
10:07:21 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.03 7.03 EDGA 10:07:13 1007000074 -42.00 568.87 -1,625 Filled
10:07:22 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.03 7.03 EDGA 10:07:17 1007000084 -42.00 532.12 -750 Filled
10:07:24 MOT COVER 1,000 1,000 7.03 7.03 EDGA 10:07:19 1007000094 -42.00 511.11 -250 Filled
10:07:26 MOT BUY 1,000 1,000 7.03 7.03 EDGA 10:07:21 1007000104 -42.00 500.61 0 Filled
10:07:29 UNG SHORT 500 500 8.11 8.11 SDOT 10:07:22 1007000114 0 500.61 -1,500 Filled
10:08:49 UNG SHORT 1,000 750 MKT 8.12 EDGA 10:08:46 1008000194 0 500.61 -2,250 Canceled
10:08:55 UNG SHORT 1,000 1,000 8.12 8.12 EDGA 10:08:50 1008000214 0 500.61 -3,250 Filled
10:09:03 UNG SHORT 1,000 1,000 8.12 8.12 EDGA 10:08:58 1008000254 0 500.61 -4,250 Filled
10:26:29 ITMN COVER 1,000 1,000 38.47 38.47 ARCA 10:26:21 1026000034 472.96 1,210.06 -2,500 Filled
10:26:32 ITMN COVER 1,000 1,000 38.47 38.47 ARCA 10:26:27 1026000044 476.71 1,701.78 -1,500 Filled
10:26:35 ITMN COVER 1,000 1,000 38.44 38.44 ARCA 10:26:27 1026000064 502.96 2,330.49 -250 Filled
10:26:37 ITMN COVER 1,000 1,000 38.44 38.44 ARCA 10:26:32 1026000074 504.22 2,457.49 0 Filled
 
90% losers?

He places 50 orders and usually gets filled on 10% (5 trades) of those orders. Of those 5 trades, the win/loss is 75% for newbies. Don seems to do better in this thread.

Picking the stocks could be automated. Look for gaps in after hours trading.

Quote from TRYKtrading:

picking that many stocks requires a hell of a lot of prep time premarket, and at 90% losers, that's a lot of stop losses having to beat to make a profit every day.
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