You can whine, scream, and stomp your feet all you like, but the fact remains we generally see this sentiment out of secular nations, largely secular populations. If this weren't the case, you wouldn't feel the need to use ad hominem in your response. But of course, you already knew that.
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Australia moves ahead. Makes loud proclamation for Christian-centered society.
- Thread starter wilburbear
- Start date
If I did use ad hominem then you'll have to point out where. So far it's not there, but if I did by your definitions then by the same token you, you must used ad hominem too.Quote from phenomena:
You can whine, scream, and stomp your feet all you like, but the fact remains we generally see this sentiment out of secular nations, largely secular populations. If this weren't the case, you wouldn't feel the need to use ad hominem in your response. But of course, you already knew that.
Why are you so touchy about this? If âwe â do see this sentiment as you say , which is supposedly made by an atheist as you say, but more probably by misinforming theists, then just what is your problem with the obvious , which is, if they mention things to do with religion within a culture , then they are talking about the culture and religion.
Whatâs your problem exactly
I don't have a "problem" per se. I am making the assertion that the sentiment is extra-religious, it exists outside of religion. Religion is component of culture. The statements aren't a product of religious doctrine but of cultural sentiment. This sentiment is found widely in people who are non religious. Hence the the sentiment, generally speaking, is not a religious, but a cultural imperative. It exists largely, if not primarily, in the absence of religion.
In other words, if you removed all religion, Australians would not want hordes of 3rd worlders and muslims hostile to western culture coming to Australia in droves.
In other words, if you removed all religion, Australians would not want hordes of 3rd worlders and muslims hostile to western culture coming to Australia in droves.
Quote from stu:
If I did use ad hominem then you'll have to point out where. So far it's not there, but if I did by your definitions then by the same token you, you must used ad hominem too.
Why are you so touchy about this? If âwe â do see this sentiment as you say , which is supposedly made by an atheist as you say, but more probably by misinforming theists, then just what is your problem with the obvious , which is, if they mention things to do with religion within a culture , then they are talking about the culture and religion.
Whatâs your problem exactly
Quote from dcraig:
Betcha she didn't say all this nonsense. Any Australian PM spewing forth this stuff would have a very short career. Even an ordinary MP would be excoriated.
I call complete BS.
Actually these are the same words an ex Prime Minister Keating said about 4 or 5 years ago...
I am very happy if she did re iterate the point....
Initially, the Italians and Greeks after WW11 assimilated and are a great asset to the country...the biggest bitch was the $20 each way whining pommies...
As for jumping on the Muslims...I am all for it and anybody else that will not attempt to assimilate...
There 5 international exits out of Australia....and nobody will stop them from leaving..
NiN
Unlikely but perhaps if I'm the half you don't have on ignore then...Quote from Ricter:
I'm losing the direction of this argument, probably because I'm only hearing half of it.
Religion is a part of culture, because culture is the sum total of a human population's knowledge and artifacts. This is not controversial... is it?
well yes, that's what I was suggesting but phenomena , for some reason or other , got very pissy about me saying it wasn't just about the culture. Although I must say his latest response does now sound more reasonable to me.
I understand and take the point being put forward that the statement was not, generally speaking, a religious one. But I would say, it is not the case at all that it is only general , and about their culture.
Culture is about ALL the things that bring a population together. If you then isolate some parts or a particular topic within it, then you are having a discussion about culture AND the components of it like a culture AND its religion or a culture AND its criminality which is indeed part of a culture as religion is, or culture AND Australian Rules Football.
The statement talks of "Our Christian beliefs", "Christian principles" and God, and "Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law".
It is most certainly about culture AND to specific degrees, religion.
I'm suggesting phenomena is incorrect to say it is only about culture.
I do agree religion is a part of culture. But so is superstition, make believe , and story telling. Just some of the things that bring a population together. But if you talk about a culture and then highlight a specific element in it which is to be especially defended, it 's not just about the culture.
It's my assertion that religion is a part of culture, rather than culture being a part of religion. Culture is a bit more than arbitrary things like sports, holidays, superstitions and food.
Culture is a shared set of views, attitudes, values, and commonly accepted social norms, usually linked to a group of people with some degree of common/shared history if not ancestry. Indeed cultural standards such as religious freedom, freedom of assembly, speech, press, etc are also culture. Western nations empirically have had a culture of freedom post renaissance europe.
My point, which has yet to be refuted is that this sentiment is most commonly found in less religious nations, and has little, if anything, to do with religion. It has a lot more to do with hordes of parasitic 3rd worlders coming to your country, often times with hostile sentiments towards your culture, and believing that they are owed some sort of special recognition or accommodation, instead of graciously considering themselves lucky to be allow in in the first place.
"Our Christian beliefs" was simply used because that's what the belligerents were complaining about (in this case), although NOW apparently this is a fictitious repackaging of the former PM's statements some years ago. So really, it's the broader point we're debating.
Culture is a shared set of views, attitudes, values, and commonly accepted social norms, usually linked to a group of people with some degree of common/shared history if not ancestry. Indeed cultural standards such as religious freedom, freedom of assembly, speech, press, etc are also culture. Western nations empirically have had a culture of freedom post renaissance europe.
My point, which has yet to be refuted is that this sentiment is most commonly found in less religious nations, and has little, if anything, to do with religion. It has a lot more to do with hordes of parasitic 3rd worlders coming to your country, often times with hostile sentiments towards your culture, and believing that they are owed some sort of special recognition or accommodation, instead of graciously considering themselves lucky to be allow in in the first place.
"Our Christian beliefs" was simply used because that's what the belligerents were complaining about (in this case), although NOW apparently this is a fictitious repackaging of the former PM's statements some years ago. So really, it's the broader point we're debating.
Quote from stu:
Unlikely but perhaps if I'm the half you don't have on ignore then...
well yes, that's what I was suggesting but phenomena , for some reason or other , got very pissy about me saying it wasn't just about the culture. Although I must say his latest response does now sound more reasonable to me.
I understand and take the point being put forward that the statement was not, generally speaking, a religious one. But I would say, it is not the case at all that it is only general , and about their culture.
Culture is about ALL the things that bring a population together. If you then isolate some parts or a particular topic within it, then you are having a discussion about culture AND the components of it like a culture AND its religion or a culture AND its criminality which is indeed part of a culture as religion is, or culture AND Australian Rules Football.
The statement talks of "Our Christian beliefs", "Christian principles" and God, and "Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law".
It is most certainly about culture AND to specific degrees, religion.
I'm suggesting phenomena is incorrect to say it is only about culture.
I do agree religion is a part of culture. But so is superstition, make believe , and story telling. Just some of the things that bring a population together. But if you talk about a culture and then highlight a specific element in it which is to be especially defended, it 's not just about the culture.
Quote from stu:
Unlikely but perhaps if I'm the half you don't have on ignore then...
well yes, that's what I was suggesting but phenomena , for some reason or other , got very pissy about me saying it wasn't just about the culture. Although I must say his latest response does now sound more reasonable to me.
I understand and take the point being put forward that the statement was not, generally speaking, a religious one. But I would say, it is not the case at all that it is only general , and about their culture.
Culture is about ALL the things that bring a population together. If you then isolate some parts or a particular topic within it, then you are having a discussion about culture AND the components of it like a culture AND its religion or a culture AND its criminality which is indeed part of a culture as religion is, or culture AND Australian Rules Football.
The statement talks of "Our Christian beliefs", "Christian principles" and God, and "Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law".
It is most certainly about culture AND to specific degrees, religion.
I'm suggesting phenomena is incorrect to say it is only about culture.
I do agree religion is a part of culture. But so is superstition, make believe , and story telling. Just some of the things that bring a population together. But if you talk about a culture and then highlight a specific element in it which is to be especially defended, it 's not just about the culture.
It's not you, we have too much "fun" discussing religion. ; )
The opening part of the OP is all about culture, but the closing focuses on religion. I don't have much to say about it, we know it's fake, but even if it weren't... Australia was founded by prisoners, mostly commies if I recall correctly, not Christians... ?