ATTENTION: Ever affected by PDT Rule please contact me to join lawsuit and petition FINRA

[vanzandt]

Please people stop posting statements that are simply false:

* i read people who say: because of PDT you can't close a trade, the PDT rule is only for entering trades, there is no rule for closing a trade YOU CAN CLOSE YOUR TRADE IF YOUR ACCOUNT IS LOCKED BECAUSE OF THE PDT RULE!

* i read people who say: the PDT rule is unfair because only ppl with more than $25k can daytrade. This is false, in a cash account without margin you can DAYTRADE ALL YOU WANT OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITHOUT MARGIN AND TRADE WITH YOUR MONEY, YOU CAN ENTER AND EXIT 1000 TRADES A DAY WITHOUT A PROBLEM!

There are ZERO arguments why the PDT rule would be damaging.

Where's the post that someone said "you can't close a position"?

I posted a statement that someone may be coerced into *not wanting to close* a position because they wanted to save a day-trade (a little silver bullet) for later in the week. I've been there, and I have kept positions overnight foregoing a profit that day only to lose it and then some the following day. This is a very valid concern, and anyone who has ever operated within the confines of the PDT will certainly agree.

And I will point out once again... you cannot short a stock in a cash account. Thats like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Its a stupid rule. I agree however the OP will find it difficult to prove damages in his class-action.

 

[Maverick74]

Where's the post that someone said "you can't close a position"?

I posted a statement that someone may be coerced into *not wanting to close* a position because they wanted to save a day-trade (a little silver bullet) for later in the week. I've been there, and I have kept positions overnight foregoing a profit that day only to lose it and then some the following day. This is a very valid concern, and anyone who has ever operated within the confines of the PDT will certainly agree.

And I will point out once again... you cannot short a stock in a cash account. Thats like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Its a stupid rule. I agree however the OP will find it difficult to prove damages in his class-action.

Of course you can't short a stock in a cash account. That requires you to BORROW someone else's money that is not yours. LOL. But you CAN buy inverse ETFs. You CAN buy puts. Come on Zany, you can walk and chew gum at the same time right?

 

[vanzandt]

Of course you can't short a stock in a cash account. That requires you to BORROW someone else's money that is not yours. LOL. But you CAN buy inverse ETFs. You CAN buy puts. Come on Zany, you can walk and chew gum at the same time right?

Well Mav.... we already shot down your argument about borrowing the broker's money. Someone can open a $2K account at TD or Schwab, or Fidelity, or whoever.... and get a margin account right away allowing them to use OPM to the tune of 4X. Got $24K(?)... hey you have $96K to hold a stock overnight.... but heaven forbid you open and close a position in an hour. Yeah thats fair.

Reverse ETF's are stupid, the game is in individual stocks. And day-trading puts is suicide. The spreads will kill you. Try day-trading a TSLA or CMG put and see what happens.

Sorry Mav... you can't win this argument... as bitter of a pill as that is for you to swallow. And it has nothing to do with chewing gum; that's pretty weak on your part.

 

[Maverick74]

Well Mav.... we already shot down your argument about borrowing the broker's money. Someone can open a $2K account at TD or Schwab, or Fidelity, or whoever.... and get a margin account right away allowing them to use OPM to the tune of 4X. Got $24K(?)... hey you have $96K to hold a stock overnight.... but heaven forbid you open and close a position in an hour. Yeah thats fair.

Reverse ETF's are stupid, the game is in individual stocks. And day-trading puts is suicide. The spreads will kill you. Try day-trading a TSLA or CMG put and see what happens.

Sorry Mav... you can't win this argument... as bitter of a pill as that is for you to swallow. And it has nothing to do with chewing gum; that's pretty weak on your part.

Zany, daytrading stocks has been dead for a long time. Why do you think all the equity prop firms went under? Come on man, I use to trade at a firm that had 1000 daytraders at it's peak. Not a single one of them is still in the game. There was an edge there 15 years ago. That is long gone. Do you really daytrade stocks? Honestly?

 

[vanzandt]

Zany, daytrading stocks has been dead for a long time. Why do you think all the equity prop firms went under? Come on man, I use to trade at a firm that had 1000 daytraders at it's peak. Not a single one of them is still in the game. There was an edge there 15 years ago. That is long gone. Do you really daytrade stocks? Honestly?

You ask a question like that when 5 minutes ago you suggested day-trading puts?!!!

Come on Mav... First of all, thats not even the point of this thread, but there's hundreds of thousands of people that do it everyday. CMG had an ATR of about $12 for the last two weeks. BA the same. Ditto FB. If someone can read charts and spot momentum correctly on short time frames... its a piece of cake. I believe the one poster from Canada here on this very thread makes quite a nice living off of doing just that. Most do lose though, I'll give you that.

Mav, you are like trying to debate a street sign; you're not gonna change your position. Give up already. Agree to disagree that I'm right. And don't day-trade puts Mav.... you can thank me later.

 

[Maverick74]

You ask a question like that when 5 minutes ago you suggested day-trading puts?!!!

Come on Mav... First of all, thats not even the point of this thread, but there's hundreds of thousands of people that do it everyday. CMG had an ATR of about $12 for the last two weeks. BA the same. Ditto FB. If someone can read charts and spot momentum correctly on short time frames... its a piece of cake. I believe the one poster from Canada here on this very thread makes quite a nice living off of doing just that. Most do lose though, I'll give you that.

Mav, you are like trying to debate street sign; you're not gonna change your position. Give up already. Agree to disagree that I'm right. And don't day-trade puts Mav.... you can thank me later.

I never said to daytrade puts. You simply stated one can't short stocks in a cash account. I provided an alternative. I made no mention of time frame. And there are NOT 100's of thousands of daytraders out there. LOL. There are more people who play professional sports then trade for a living. There are more women in the WNBA than daytraders. Hell, even at the peak of daytrading back in 2000 there were very few professional daytraders and very few who were even profitable. I would bet there are more people that make a living selling girl scout cookies then daytrading.

Come on Zany, this has been my life. It has been the ONLY thing I have done in my life. I have been around traders my entire adult life; young, old, good, bad. I can't name a single person I have ever met in my life that makes their living as a daytrader today, and again, these are the only people I know. Rearden Metal, probably bar none the best pure trader on this website, does not even daytrade. And this guy was good. And he has been in the industry as long as I have and also worked for the other big monster firm, Schonfeld. Schonfeld was THE biggest player in the game and THEY don't even daytrade anymore. They converted into a longer term hedge fund. Come on Zany, the numbers don't back up anything you say.

Look at the topstep threads on ET (there are like 200 of them to choose from). How many of these so called "chart readers" are profitable on TST? ZERO. It's not easy Zany. You need an edge to make money. And there was a time when there was a real edge in equity markets. And it was insane. That edge is long gone. Even the HFT firms are dwindling down. Most are migrating into the crypto space.

If it was so easy Zany, then why are all the daytrading firms gone and down to scraps? Just bring in chart readers like you say and presto, big bucks right? So what gives?

 

[vanzandt]

Look at the topstep threads on ET (there are like 200 of them to choose from). How many of these so called "chart readers" are profitable on TST? ZERO.

Aren't they a sponsor here? Ouch.

btw....There's only 12 teams in the Women's NBA. FINRA estimates that 7.5 Million people "trade from home". Who knows how many trade more than 3 times per week.

I give up Mav. Mad props to you though. I DO respect your opinion. For real.

 

[aquarian1]

I think you are correct to object to this rule.
It did not use to exist before the internet bubble.

It is a stupid unfair and unjust rule. I was impacted by Interactive Brokers - a terrible company - (complained without success that it did not apply to those trading in Canada - which was ignored) even though the rule is for Americans. Finally, after years, IB opened a Cdn firm and stopped applying the rule to those trading in Canada.

I wish you success with your endevour.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Not sure why so many are here trying to defend the brokers and the PDT rule. They are entitled to put restrictions on how you use their borrowed funds but it seems the 17 year old rule has not adjusted to the times and why do you care unless you work for a broker.

The argument that stock daytraders do not make money so keep the PDT rule in place is illogical under the regulation and no one here has made a legal argument as to why the PDT needs to be kept in place. It is simply an industry practice put put by the then-NASD to reign in small time day traders and prevent them from blowing out, not a requirement passed by Congress.

Cash accounts do not solve the problem because of SEC/NASD rule:

"Day trading in a cash account is generally prohibited. Day trades can occur in a cash account only to the extent the trades do not violate the free-riding prohibition of Federal Reserve Board's Regulation T. In general, failing to pay for a security before you sell the security in a cash account violates the free-riding prohibition. If you free-ride, your broker is required to place a 90-day freeze on the account."

I doubt the suit will proceed because an industry has the legal right to self-regulate and determine its own rules of operation as long as it does not violate any federal securities law and PDT does not. So just arguing it is unfair will not get very far in the courts. I would prefer to see a better legal argument put forth than simply the "not fair" excuse and rich can do what they want but the poor are restricted from day trading.

But still don't understand the typical ET response of "this does not apply to me but I am going to argue against it as though only my opinion is fact!"

 

[vanzandt]

Not sure why so many are here trying to defend the brokers and the PDT rule.

But still don't understand the typical ET response of "this does not apply to me but I am going to argue against it as though only my opinion is fact!"

I do.
Its because once Mav makes a post be it right or wrong.... he's gonna argue it till he turns blue or dies. Gotta love him though.