Attacks on scientific consensus on climate change mirror tactics of tobacco industry

Quote from jem:

no one is saying they have evidence that co2 leads temps.

Some agw nutters at the IPCC were claiming they had models which showed co2 leading temps but those models failed and they were just models anyway.

The shakun study also did some modeling. it claimed that after warming in antarctica... the modeling showed co2 could have led the warming in other parts of the globe.

Ok lets say Shakuns modeling turned out to be good CO2 still trails the warming.
The atmosphere is comprised in part of CO2. CO2 absorbs radiation above a certain wavelength, i.e. it heats up. If there is more CO2, there are more molecules warming up, thus the atmosphere is as a whole warmer. Since that occurs even if solar radiation remains constant, one has to say the rising CO2 leads rising temperature. Adding CO2 is like adding a second pane of glass to the greenhouse--the interior warms even while the incoming sunlight does not change.
 
Quote from Ricter:

The atmosphere is comprised in part of CO2. CO2 absorbs radiation above a certain wavelength, i.e. it heats up. If there is more CO2, there are more molecules warming up, thus the atmosphere is as a whole warmer. Since that occurs even if solar radiation remains constant, one has to say the rising CO2 leads rising temperature. Adding CO2 is like adding a second pane of glass to the greenhouse--the interior warms even while the incoming sunlight does not change.

That's not what the researchers at http://science.nasa.gov/ say. They assert in mulitple studies that increased CO2 will cool the earth.
 
Quote from jem:

first of all... showing a lead lag relationship does not show causation... It does however make it very doubtful the laggard is the cause.

2nd... your charts do not show co2 leading temperature... if they are accurate.

co2 has always trailed change in temperature in the temperature record. there are no arguments about that.

As pointed out many times in the past, CO2 lags warming by 800 years. The following url outlines this in charts and includes links to many peer reviewed papers by leading scientists on the subject.

The 800 year lag – graphed
 
Quote from Ricter:

The atmosphere is comprised in part of CO2. CO2 absorbs radiation above a certain wavelength, i.e. it heats up. If there is more CO2, there are more molecules warming up, thus the atmosphere is as a whole warmer. Since that occurs even if solar radiation remains constant, one has to say the rising CO2 leads rising temperature. Adding CO2 is like adding a second pane of glass to the greenhouse--the interior warms even while the incoming sunlight does not change.


we are not talking about a lab exercise we are talking about a dynamic systems.

we also know that co2 reflects the suns energy in the upper atmosphere..
we also probably know that most of the IR bounce happens in the first layer of the co2.

and
even the agw nutters admit co2 is such a tiny component of the greenhouse its effect needs to be amplified. The models were claiming co2 warmed by causing more water vapor. Now the modelers realize more clouds might be causing cooling.


In short the atmosphere is very complicated... adding co2 may cause more warming than cooling or it may not.

We dont know. But we do see that co2 lags change in temperature.
 
Quote from gwb-trading:

That's not what the researchers at http://science.nasa.gov/ say. They assert in mulitple studies that increased CO2 will cool the earth.

Total horseshit.

You still haven't answered my question weasel even after I upheld my end of the bargain. Is the CO2 released by man a greenhouse gas?
 
Regardless. It doesn't matter if CO2 lags temps in the ancient historical record. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. As levels rise so do temps. It's that simple.


The modern record proves it and every science organization in the world agrees.
 
Quote from futurecurrents:

Regardless. It doesn't matter if CO2 lags temps in the ancient historical record. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. As levels rise so do temps. It's that simple.


The modern record proves it and every science organization in the world agrees.

I think not. AGW has very limited scientific support and is purely a political exercise. Every year more and more scientists are seeing the 'climate change' alarmism for the fraud that it is.
 
Once again, you are assuming the scientists are as fucking stupid and crazed and ignorant as you are. They are not. That's why every science org in the world and about 97% of climate experts agree. Man has caused much of the warming over the last forty years.



Quote from jem:

we are not talking about a lab exercise we are talking about a dynamic systems.

we also know that co2 reflects the suns energy in the upper atmosphere..
we also probably know that most of the IR bounce happens in the first layer of the co2.

and
even the agw nutters admit co2 is such a tiny component of the greenhouse its effect needs to be amplified. The models were claiming co2 warmed by causing more water vapor. Now the modelers realize more clouds might be causing cooling.


In short the atmosphere is very complicated... adding co2 may cause more warming than cooling or it may not.

We dont know. But we do see that co2 lags change in temperature.
 
Back
Top