attack religion without fear

Quote from Quark:

Excellent! Thanks for sharing the quote.

My favorite is, "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." I regret I don't know who said it.
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Another more recent one I like is:

"My God is better than your God. It seemed there was always close correlation between true believers and high body counts."

Dan Brown, Angels and Demons

Seneca

or best, just quote the Bible:

"
13And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. "


Deuteronomy 20:13-14

Wonder what God had in mine when he let the killers keep the women??????????????????
g
 
This is the whole chapter so it does provide some context. If you go way back to the covenant God made with Abraham, He promised to protect His people against thier enemies and allows killing in times of war. Just because God allowed the defeated to be handed over to the Jews, is not necessarily unjust or bad. The Jews had the Law and they were charged to obey it. No one outside of the covernant community has the Law nor were they charged by God to keep it. This expalins why there was a high level of barbarism. The scripture you quote shows no injustice on the part of God or His people.


Deu 20:1 When you go out to battle against your enemies and see horses and chariots, a people more than you, do not be afraid of them. For Jehovah your God is with you, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt.
Deu 20:2 And it shall be, when you come near to the battle, the priest shall go up and speak to the people,
Deu 20:3 and shall say to them, Hear, O, Israel, today you go up to battle against your enemies. Do not let your hearts faint, do not fear, and do not tremble, neither be terrified before their faces.
Deu 20:4 For Jehovah your God is He who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.
Deu 20:5 And the officers shall speak to the people saying, Who is the man that has built a new house and has not dedicated it? Let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle and another man dedicate it.
Deu 20:6 And who is the man that has planted a vineyard and has not used its fruits? Let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle and another man use its fruits.
Deu 20:7 And who is the man that has become engaged to a wife and has not taken her? Let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle and another man take her.
Deu 20:8 And the officers shall speak further to the people, and they shall say, Who is the man that is fearful and faint-hearted? Let him go and return to his house, lest his brothers' heart faint as well as his heart.
Deu 20:9 And it shall be, when the officers have made an end of speaking to the people, they shall make captains of the armies to lead the people.
Deu 20:10 When you come near a city to fight against it, then shout peace to it.
Deu 20:11 And it shall be, if it makes the answer of peace and opens to you, then all the people found in it shall be forced laborers to you, and they shall serve you.
Deu 20:12 But if it will make no peace with you, but will make war against you, then you shall besiege it.
Deu 20:13 And when Jehovah your God has delivered it into your hands, you shall strike every male of it with the edge of the sword.
Deu 20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, all the spoil of it, you shall take to yourself. And you shall eat the spoil of your enemies, which Jehovah your God has given you.
Deu 20:15 So you shall do to all the cities which are very far off from you, which are not of the cities of these nations.
Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which Jehovah your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes.
Deu 20:17 But you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites; as Jehovah your God has commanded you,
Deu 20:18 so that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominations which they have done to their gods. So you would sin against Jehovah your God.
Deu 20:19 When you shall besiege a city a long time in making war against it to take it, you shall not destroy its trees by forcing an axe against them. For you may eat of them, and you shall not cut them down. For is the tree of the field a man that it should go before you to lay siege?
Deu 20:20 Only the trees which you know that they are not trees for food, you shall destroy and cut them down. And you shall build bulwarks against the city that makes war with you, until it is subdued.
 
Quote from humble1:

This is the whole chapter so it does provide some context. If you go way back to the covenant God made with Abraham, He promised to protect His people against thier enemies and allows killing in times of war. Just because God allowed the defeated to be handed over to the Jews, is not necessarily unjust or bad. The Jews had the Law and they were charged to obey it. No one outside of the covernant community has the Law nor were they charged by God to keep it. This expalins why there was a high level of barbarism. The scripture you quote shows no injustice on the part of God or His people.
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Thanks for proving the validity of Dan Brown's quote:

"My God is better than your God. It seemed there was always close correlation between true believers and high body counts. "

from:
Dan Brown's, Angels and Demons

Another quote showing its validity:

"Violence may murder the murderer, but it doesn't murder murder. Violence may murder the liar, but it doesn't murder lies; it doesn't establish truth.... Violence may go to the point of murdering the hater, but it doesn't murder hate. It may increase hate. It is always a descending spiral leading nowhere. This is the ultimate weakness of violence: It multiplies evil and violence in the universe. It doesn't solve any problems. "

I'll leave it as an exercise to find its author

Seneca
 
"It is often argued that religion is valuable because it makes men good, but even if this were true it would not be a proof that religion is true. That would be an extension of pragmatism beyond endurance. Santa Claus makes children good in precisely the same way, and yet no one would argue seriously that the fact proves his existence. The defense of religion is full of such logical imbecilities."

by Mencken

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes"

by Jefferson
 
Quote from seneca_roman:

Thanks for proving the validity of Dan Brown's quote:

"My God is better than your God. It seemed there was always close correlation between true believers and high body counts. "

from:
Dan Brown's, Angels and Demons

Another quote showing its validity:

"Violence may murder the murderer, but it doesn't murder murder. Violence may murder the liar, but it doesn't murder lies; it doesn't establish truth.... Violence may go to the point of murdering the hater, but it doesn't murder hate. It may increase hate. It is always a descending spiral leading nowhere. This is the ultimate weakness of violence: It multiplies evil and violence in the universe. It doesn't solve any problems. "

I'll leave it as an exercise to find its author

Seneca
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The above is absurd. You mean that if a person comes into my home, and intends to kill me and my family, I should not kill the person because it may breed hate. So what. Once the guy is dead, there is nothing left to hate.

You have a strange definition of murder. There is a difference between killing to save lives and killing to take a life for no reason. If God had not provided protection against an enemy that had already declared it's intentions, then God would have been unjust and a liar. The God of Abraham declares himself to be Holy, absolute in authority, and the one true God. So there is no other god to compare Him with if He really exisits. He must exist because we are talking about Him. God can not lie and still be God. What He does may upset you, but it is not unjust or deceitful.

Read Romans 9 and you may get some insight as to why you fail to understand, or even hate im so much. He obviously left you out of the loop.
 
Quote from humble1:

Can you give me an example of the inhumane doctinal junk you refer to?
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not to be picky but I said gunk not junk. Gunk as in a residue or accumulation. Dross or garbage which might block or restrict.

Applies in my view to pretty much all mainstream religious rule books, simply because of the way their demands and expectations in the content matter are professed as being actually true. The Bible in particular, in light of the way some religious people respond to questions or criticism of its inhumanity, as brought up in this thread and others. Then if you read back a couple of pages or so, you may see the contention that Matthew 25:41 specifically is evidence of inhumane doctinal gunk and its possible effect on peoples outlooks as per the descriptions such as the one jem gave.

You will read the excuses, you know like "out of context" (the Bible is out of context??!!)then the name calling starts simply because one might dare to challenge the inhumanity, and evidence the so called holy word for what it is. You know like "madman" "troll". And the blind defense of something that in it's very explanation is repugnant barbaric and violent. That is the gunk.
Hope that helps
 
Quote from humble1:

The above is absurd. You mean that if a person comes into my home, and intends to kill me and my family, I should not kill the person because it may breed hate. So what. Once the guy is dead, there is nothing left to hate.

You have a strange definition of murder. There is a difference between killing to save lives and killing to take a life for no reason. If God had not provided protection against an enemy that had already declared it's intentions, then God would have been unjust and a liar. The God of Abraham declares himself to be Holy, absolute in authority, and the one true God. So there is no other god to compare Him with if He really exisits. He must exist because we are talking about Him. God can not lie and still be God. What He does may upset you, but it is not unjust or deceitful.

Read Romans 9 and you may get some insight as to why you fail to understand, or even hate im so much. He obviously left you out of the loop.
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I'm glad you are using the cheap fundie fallacy of circular logic: The Bible says it is god's word therefore it is true because it is god's word. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHH?

BTW-who wrote the quote you criticized?

And why should you kill a potential killer? Doesn't that violate one of the 10 commandments, number 6 if I recall correctly. And how dare you even consider breaking one of them that were given to Moses while he was wandering around Sinai?

Or was it actually what the Bible writers "borrowed " from the Egyptian Book of the Dead:

"I have not killed"

Or how about the flood of Noah is very similar to the Epic of Gilgamesh:

"O man of Shuruppak, son of Ubartutu:
Tear down the house and build a boat!
Abandon wealth and seek living beings!
Spurn possessions and keep alive living beings!
Make all living beings go up into the boat.
The boat which you are to build,
its dimensions must measure equal to each other:
its length must correspond to its width."


Or the Garden of Eden (actually "edin") is from the legends of Sumer?

Was the God of Moses just a plagerizer?

It appears to me you are not even in the loop, being ignorant of these things.

Seneca
 
I tried to ignore him but his last self serving post was too much.

Note how much thought must have gone into his cuting and pasting.

I think only a sociopath could make such a clear lie when confronted by the truth as he was crafting his cut and paste lie. All the while knowing that you would be caught.

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Quote from stu:
What a lot of Rubbish. I made no such presumption or anything to that effect. My question specifically asked... if it was your consideration that the destruction of the middle east was jesus's intention.

Here it is, as posted...
"JEM you do not consider the destruction of the middle east to be God's or Jesus's intention? .. Could you explain yourself any better then? ....."

There is no mention of cause in my question . You have to make that extrapolation yourself, which you do and then blame me for making it and by so doing, show nothing more than your usual weak minded dishonest reaction.

My questioning remark,... "presumably you consider to be God's or Jesus's intention" ... does not presume cause. Since when did intention presume cause. You, a lawyer??,.. don't make me laugh.
----------


So I wrote

Just to show what a madman you are here is your full quote where your presumption is revealed.!

"To top things off, you infer endorsement of all that with implied threats of your own. The destruction of the middle east, which presumably you consider to be God's or Jesus's intention, along with the inference that I must choose to accept the terms and ideas of these mass murderous exterminators, or go to the 'burn place'."

....
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Quote from humble1:

Specifically what evidence do you know of that proves Jesus is just a man?
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we cant " prove" anything about jesus because there is no outside evidence. in fact there is no evidence outside the bible that jesus even existed although most skeptics will concede that a man named jesus probably existed and was killed by the romans.
what we are left with is deductive reasoning. we know the bible is a flawed book doctored over the years to "fit" the story. we now know that the virgin birth story was a fable and we also know that the resurrection story was a fable made up by his followers. what we are left with is a simple jewish preacher who was killed by the romans and was later lifted to deity status by his followers.
it is somewhat like john kennedy. he was a flawed man who probably would not have even been reelected buy by being killed by an assassin was raised to hero status over time.
have you ever heard the saying" "those who write the history books control history"
 
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