Athiests...want evidence of God? Read here.

marketsurfer · Dec 9, 2008

Quote from vhehn:

even if its complicated why do people like you so readily jump to believe that some grey haired old deity picked up a handfull of dirt and turned it into life life as we see it today?
if you were dropped here from outer space there is nothing in the evidence that could make you conclude that except for a primitive book written by men who thought thunder and lightening were a god showing his displeasure. why do you so readily believe the superstitious writings of primitive men over the evidence we have so far? the only logical explaination is that it is the indoctrination from your childhood that plants that deep seated need to believe.
nothing else explains the fact that the vast majority of people believe what their parents believe. if you had been born a muslim you would be just as sure about another version of a god.

Why do you anti theists always jump to the " grey haired old deity"? Is is that hard to admit that a power greater than mankind can even imagine, may actually exist? It certainly makes the most sense to me--can man know this power? that's another question.

surf

stu · Dec 9, 2008

Quote from marketsurfer:

Why do you anti theists always jump to the " grey haired old deity"? Is is that hard to admit that a power greater than mankind can even imagine, may actually exist? It certainly makes the most sense to me--can man know this power? that's another question.

surf

No it's not hard to imagine at all and unlike a deity such a power actually exists. It's called Nature. But why then expand that to mean a bigger power does or must exist and therefore created humankind, life, the universe and everything, and that It has conciousness or intelligence and wants you to worship It and do things in Its name and glory? Talk about a stretch .

And hey, it is theists who for centuries have gone around inculcating , especially to children, this imaginary power as a " grey haired old deity", not atheists. So look to them for an explanation as to why that should no longer be the case.

ps hi surf

and a merry christmas dude.

Smart Money · Dec 9, 2008

Quote from vhehn:

even if its complicated why do people like you so readily jump to believe that some grey haired old deity picked up a handfull of dirt and turned it into life life as we see it today?
if you were dropped here from outer space there is nothing in the evidence that could make you conclude that except for a primitive book written by men who thought thunder and lightening were a god showing his displeasure. why do you so readily believe the superstitious writings of primitive men over the evidence we have so far? the only logical explaination is that it is the indoctrination from your childhood that plants that deep seated need to believe.
nothing else explains the fact that the vast majority of people believe what their parents believe. if you had been born a muslim you would be just as sure about another version of a god.

Don't know why they jump to that conclusion. Maybe we are hard-wired that way. But imagine if you were some formless intelligent being and you did create some types of creatures. How would you interface with them? I would think that you'd take a form that they could understand. But if I'm correct, God didn't always take the form of a grey haired man...he was also a burning bush, and a few other icons that escape me.

I think of it as the "Sim City" philosophy. If you were to create a civilization, like Sim City, you would relate to them on their level (i.e., computer code). And if the Sims were doing something you didn't like, you'd either erase them and start over, or guide them in a new direction.

It would all be done for entertainment... To make it more interesting, you'd give your Sims free will.

Now...you could write a program that would create lightning, fire, brimstone, and all that stuff to where the Sims would do nothing but worship you and comply with your wishes...but where would be the entertainment in that?

Nah, I think I'd create a loose kind of framework for them to follow, and let some of them stray from that path for entertainment purposes. Probably throw some curveballs in there like dinosaur bones so they really scratch their heads.

The Sims wouldn't really know what its like to be their creator, and they'd relate better if we gave them the idea that they were created in our image, though they were a much less interesting version that is comparatively one-dimensional.

Of course, you'd have some of the Sims who believed that static electricity across the motherboard of their computer created a pixel-sim that eventually evolved into what they are then. It'd be great fun watching them argue about it.

SM

newtoet · Dec 9, 2008

Smart Money · Dec 9, 2008

Quote from Smart Money:

Don't know why they jump to that conclusion. Maybe we are hard-wired that way. But imagine if you were some formless intelligent being and you did create some types of creatures. How would you interface with them? I would think that you'd take a form that they could understand. But if I'm correct, God didn't always take the form of a grey haired man...he was also a burning bush, and a few other icons that escape me.

I think of it as the "Sim City" philosophy. If you were to create a civilization, like Sim City, you would relate to them on their level (i.e., computer code). And if the Sims were doing something you didn't like, you'd either erase them and start over, or guide them in a new direction.

It would all be done for entertainment... To make it more interesting, you'd give your Sims free will.

Now...you could write a program that would create lightning, fire, brimstone, and all that stuff to where the Sims would do nothing but worship you and comply with your wishes...but where would be the entertainment in that?

Nah, I think I'd create a loose kind of framework for them to follow, and let some of them stray from that path for entertainment purposes. Probably throw some curveballs in there like dinosaur bones so they really scratch their heads.

The Sims wouldn't really know what its like to be their creator, and they'd relate better if we gave them the idea that they were created in our image, though they were a much less interesting version that is comparatively one-dimensional.

Of course, you'd have some of the Sims who believed that static electricity across the motherboard of their computer created a pixel-sim that eventually evolved into what they are then. It'd be great fun watching them argue about it.

SM

As an aside, I don't know if they make one, but wouldn't a Sim Religion package be cool? Just like the Sims, but one person would play God, and another would play Satan, and you'd both play within certain parameters to try to bend the Sim World to your philosophy. I'm sure there would be a upgrades including the Sim-Evolution package which could be uploaded by the Satan player as a kind of curveball to take away from God's power base.

SM

Cutten · Dec 9, 2008

Quote from Smart Money:

Suddenly this one-celled creature is the only thing on earth that it is alive. It can't be a predator...preying on other living things because there are none. So instead, it has to eat stuff available.

Did you get taught biology at school? If so, you'll have heard of photosynthesis. Plants don't need to eat anything, all they need is light & water.

It's truly absurd to launch a biology-based critique of evolution and then overlook the first thing you get taught in the classroom.

Thunderdog · Dec 9, 2008

To the OP: First learn to spell "atheist" and then start a thread on the topic.

kut2k2 · Dec 9, 2008

The worst part about threads like this is a bunch of non-biochemists giving their supremely ignorant opinions about how biochemistry should work. I'm not a biochemist but I do know this much about chemistry in general: atoms and molecules don't combine randomly. There are rules. If you combine hydrogen gas, oxygen gas and a spark, you don't get HxOy where x and y can be any integers. You get H2O and nothing else.

The first lifeform was much simpler than anything alive today. It didn't need a cell wall, it had absolutely no competition. It didn't decay because decay is the process of being eaten by microorganisms and of course it was the only microorganism. If it was unviable, it was eventually replaced by similar proto-organisms that were viable for their aqueous environment.

The fact that nobody has yet provided a detailed method for abiogenesis is hardly "proof" that abiogenesis is impossible. People were told that manned flight was impossible, pre-Wright Brothers. Allegedly one idiot quit the U.S. Patent Office in the 1800s because "everything has already been invented."

What will you anti-evolutionists do when (not if, WHEN) abiogenesis is produced in a verfiable laboratory experiment?

killthesunshine · Dec 9, 2008

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Ok...you want proof? Here it is. Imagine you are walking through a forest and you see a laptop computer sitting there in the middle of forest. This laptop is the most advanced piece of machinery you have ever seen. Upon closer inspection, you see that the laptop runs, not with a battery, but with clean water and also sunlight. Looking inside the laptop, you see that it has the smallest hard drive you have ever seen. Its storing information, the equivelent of 1 million pages of encyclopedias, and its being stored on a drive, that you can not see with your naked eye. not only that, you take your 1000x magnification light microscope and you see cant see the hard drive, but all that infomation is there once you use your electron microscope. This laptop is also so advanced it creates foods you can eat out of nothing! This computer is so advanced, there is no way that even the smartest men in the world could put their collective resources together, with a trillion dollar budget and come up with this stuff.

Here is a picture of this advanced computer http://www.flickr.com/photos/harthillsouth/2731965309/

Do you really want to tell me that you think there was a big explosion 13 billion years ago and this created itself?

and how would you know this 'laptop' is of more profound 'sophistication' than the rock or tree beside it if you didn't have previous knowledge of similar sophisticated devices, from EXPERIENCE, that it truly is.

you idiot

Cesko · Dec 9, 2008

The fact that nobody has yet provided a detailed method for abiogenesis is hardly "proof" that abiogenesis is impossible. People were told that manned flight was impossible, pre-Wright Brothers. Allegedly one idiot quit the U.S. Patent Office in the 1800s because "everything has already been invented."

LOL. Do you understand that logically you rely on faith just like a religious person? Just replace the word abiogenesis with God.