Atheism is a or is a product of mental illness...

Atheism is a or is a product of mental illness...

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 17.1%

  • No

    Votes: 58 82.9%
  • Total voters
    70
Quote from Thunderdog:
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If the best a human can do is be a good human, you're all for it?

Aren't you?

Are you suggesting that a faith in God elevates man beyond his humanity to, say, divinity perhaps?

If the faith is true and in something True, that is what I am suggesting.

If so, that is a tad presumptuous, wouldn't you say?

It is an opinion, a belief. I don't see it as particularly presumptuous. I am not the first one in history to hold that opinion.

And aren't those Republicans that you abhor a tad presumptuous with their holier-than-thou attitude?

The republicans I have problems with are neither good humans, nor are they practicing a true faith in something True...

Heck, they don't even follow the Golden Rule (or many of the Commandments of Moses for that matter) which was a command of their Master Jesus Christ.
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

If the best a human can do is be a good human, you're all for it?

Aren't you?

Are you suggesting that a faith in God elevates man beyond his humanity to, say, divinity perhaps?

If the faith is true and in something True, that is what I am suggesting.

If so, that is a tad presumptuous, wouldn't you say?

It is an opinion, a belief. I don't see it as particularly presumptuous. I am not the first one in history to hold that opinion.

And aren't those Republicans that you abhor a tad presumptuous with their holier-than-thou attitude?

The republicans I have problems with are neither good humans, nor are they practicing a true faith in something True...

Heck, they don't even follow the Golden Rule (or many of the Commandments of Moses for that matter) which was a command of their Master Jesus Christ.
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Let's shave it down a bit with Ockham's razor, shall we? What makes a good human, or even a great human, is not his beliefs but his actions. The Golden Rule is meaningless if not applied, however solemnly it may be either taught or preached. It is not the thought that counts. It is the action that elevates man to his potential. There is no evidence to suggest that religion or a belief in a deity makes someone a better person, as judged by his actions. You only need to mingle among the holier-than-thou or better-than-thou set to know full well that stated, or even genuinely believed, views are meaningless without the force of action behind them consistent with those views. The genesis of those views, therefore, is moot. Action trumps all.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

Let's shave it down a bit with Ockham's razor, shall we? What makes a good human, or even a great human, is not his beliefs but his actions. The Golden Rule is meaningless if not applied, however solemnly it may be either taught or preached. It is not the thought that counts. It is the action that elevates man to his potential. There is no evidence to suggest that religion or a belief in a deity makes someone a better person, as judged by his actions. You only need to mingle among the holier-than-thou or better-than-thou set to know full well that stated, or even genuinely believed, views are meaningless without the force of action behind them consistent with those views. The genesis of those views, therefore, is moot. Action trumps all.
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very very impressive rebut..

who in their right mind would argue against the practice of morality

words are cheap :cool:
 
Quote from Thunderdog:
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Let's shave it down a bit with Ockham's razor, shall we?

What makes a good human, or even a great human, is not his beliefs but his actions.

In whose eyes?

Humans, or in God's eyes?

If a human performs "good" actions, he gets "good" consequences in the future.

That has nothing to do with God directly as God is not involved with human actions. There is a system which governs consequences that God has created, but just like a computer program, once it is written and put into effect, the programmer pays no attention to it any more.

The Golden Rule is meaningless if not applied, however solemnly it may be either taught or preached.

Oh, I agree it is meaningless only so much as we attribute meaning only to action and not intention.

Perhaps God looks only to the intention to give His reward...

As an aside, and perhaps something to ponder...in law we look to the actions, say killing someone. However, we reward or punish differently. The one who kills an enemy who is attacking him is not guilty for the reason of self defense. The soldier who bravely kills an enemy is given a medal. The drunk driver who kills is given a judgment of vehicular homicide. The jealous rage killer who doesn't plan to kill but does so when he finds his spouse in bed is given a different outcome. The cold blooded killer who kills by planning the murder and carrying it out gets a different outcome. The killer who is temporarily insane gets a different outcome.

So yes, thinking matters despite the actions...

It is not the thought that counts.

That is what you think...

LOL!!!

Too funny, you think the thought doesn't count...

Can't you see the human irony in that?

:D

It is the action that elevates man to his potential.

Someone can act good, but not actually be good. They can have an ulterior motive...a motive which is actually not good.

I am suggesting that God looks to the motive and gives His reward accordingly...

There is no evidence to suggest that religion or a belief in a deity makes someone a better person, as judged by his actions.

No human evidence that you can see...

You only need to mingle among the holier-than-thou or better-than-thou set to know full well that stated, or even genuinely believed, views are meaningless without the force of action behind them consistent with those views. The genesis of those views, therefore, is moot. Action trumps all.

Action trumping all is you belief, which is fine by me. I am in favor of people acting in a good way, but I am not of the opinion that simply acting good counts for anything if the inner intention is not actually good, and if the inner intention is not Godly, well then the consequences are never Godly...

So someone lives a "good" life of "good" actions. Fine. They get their consequence.

Someone else lives a life of "good" intentions. Fine. They get their consequence.

Someone else lives a life for God only.

They get their consequence.
 
Note the minute you take a word used for a century and start trying to create a weak form and a strong form you should smell a rat.

A pattern detector like RM should know that.

Atheists are trying to redefine atheism because science currently says they are nut jobs. Instead of agreeing that it takes faith to believe in God and that it takes faith to state there is no God.
Atheists are now campaigning to make agnosticism part of the definition of atheism.

Its like saying believers are those who believe in a Deity and those who are undecided about the existence of a Deity.

By changing the definition I can make it look like every non nut job in the world is a believer. 100 percent of the educated people in the world become believers with a just a simple believer strong form and believer weak form.

don't fall for weak language...

Atheists are nut jobs. There is no way science can say whether there is a Creator or Not. Science ends a split second after the big bang. Any further back than that becomes conjecture.

Every respectable physicist grants that they have no idea who what happened just prior to a few split seconds after the big bang.

Only the uneducated or delusional are atheists in the true sense of the word.
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

...Perhaps God looks only to the intention to give His reward...

...I am suggesting that God looks to the motive and gives His reward accordingly...

...No human evidence that you can see...
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Judging by your post, it appears that you are speaking for, and on behalf of, "God." That's fairly presumptuous.

Didn't Jesus take the wheel when he told Bush to invade Iraq?

You're sure you're not Republican, eh? :p
 
Quote from jem:

...Atheists are trying to redefine atheism because science currently says they are nut jobs...

..Only the uneducated or delusional are atheists in the true sense of the word.
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What a marvelous parallel universe you must live in. Even so, do drop by ours if you ever find yourself in the neighborhood.

As an aside, perhaps you were too busy praying to catch vhehn's video link earlier in the thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqjAHCXz5U
 
Words are expensive, and more powerful...

"The pen is mightier than the sword."

---Edward Bulwer-Lytton---

Human morality is relativistic.

Soldiers kill in the same way for one army as they do the army they are fighting against.

Morality is often determined then by the victors...and their historians.

Only an absolute factor could produce an absolute morality...

I do find it interesting that you are only capable of licking someone else and their rebutt (sic), probably because all you got is the butt...

:D :D :D


Quote from killthesunshine:

very very impressive rebut..

who in their right mind would argue against the practice of morality

words are cheap :cool:
More...
 
Quote from jem:

Note the minute you take a word used for a century and start trying to create a weak form and a strong form you should smell a rat.

A pattern detector like RM should know that.

Atheists are trying to redefine atheism because science currently says they are nut jobs. Instead of agreeing that it takes faith to believe in God and that it takes faith to state there is no God.
Atheists are now campaigning to make agnosticism part of the definition of atheism.

Its like saying believers are those who believe in a Deity and those who are undecided about the existence of a Deity.

By changing the definition I can make it look like every non nut job in the world is a believer. 100 percent of the educated people in the world become believers with a just a simple believer strong form and believer weak form.

don't fall for weak language...

Atheists are nut jobs. There is no way science can say whether there is a Creator or Not. Science ends a split second after the big bang. Any further back than that becomes conjecture.

Every respectable physicist grants that they have no idea who what happened just prior to a few split seconds after the big bang.

Only the uneducated or delusional are atheists in the true sense of the word.
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does it take faith to not believe in zues? how about thor?

"Can you imagine the ignorance level of someone who asks you to provide a formal proof for a negative?"
 
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