As a Forex Trader, I find this market impossible

[Handle123]

... Today, the market trended up - the ES - and then suddenly slammed lower. No real reason that I see, but by the time you read this, we will be back at the highs again. Its just so much more volatile than FX to me. I guess that is the question - how in the hell do you deal with it? It seems technical analysis isn't worth a f*ck in this market.

ES did not slam, that was a gift of what is called trend. I scale/day trade, 80% is taking 0-3 ticks and other are for more. I can manually trade this, but what's the point when easier to let automation look for signals on many symbols and diversify.

I trade forex but from long term and staying in years, day trade futures and you can work up size by developing multiple signals. Forex day trading I don't like trading against the broker and it is not bank data.

I been trading 41 years, there is nothing I have not seen happen at least twice as far as charting. You lack years of watching screens at what volatility really is. Just cause the margin on futures is $500, I would never only have $500, I go seven times the margin as back up. You want to know really volatility is, when markets reopened after 911, the ES opened like $3000 lower. People who are naïve are the one's end up bankrupt "paying the market".

 

[clockwork71]

The ES market did not trend up. The strength of the trend was too weak. I was waiting to go short, and went short after the upwards move reversed. I got out roughly 30 points lower, but I will not go long here. Maybe if I get a signal I go short again. I will see what my system tells to do. The move down was very clear to me. But you apparently had no idea what the market would do.




Wrong, we are now at 2628.50, so we did even not recover 50%.

You mean 2638.

 

[clockwork71]

ES did not slam, that was a gift of what is called trend. I scale/day trade, 80% is taking 0-3 ticks and other are for more. I can manually trade this, but what's the point when easier to let automation look for signals on many symbols and diversify.

I trade forex but from long term and staying in years, day trade futures and you can work up size by developing multiple signals. Forex day trading I don't like trading against the broker and it is not bank data.

I been trading 41 years, there is nothing I have not seen happen at least twice as far as charting. You lack years of watching screens at what volatility really is. Just cause the margin on futures is $500, I would never only have $500, I go seven times the margin as back up. You want to know really volatility is, when markets reopened after 911, the ES opened like $3000 lower. People who are naïve are the one's end up bankrupt "paying the market".

I was trading during the 2007-8 era in the Yen....I know what volatility is.

 

[clockwork71]

The obvious answer: Have a trading plan that benefits from "pops and drops"



Yes. Futures are a perfect underlying trading vehicle. Forex for retail traders is a Scam perpetuated by the online Forex brokers.

Boils down to what is your rules for trading? Good application of correct rules that fit your tolerance for risk and size of account is the answer.

I find this point to be the truest thing I have heard so far - momentum trading and a large account seems to be the answer. I make money in Forex, so I don't know if its a scam. I know I don't trade my own money so I am protected anyway. As for the larger account - I signed up for a much larger tryout via OneUp. We will see how it works out. I was trading with someone that had a 1000 USD daily DD rule, which isn't impossible, but it is tough for someone that trades FX as a swing trader as I am used to being able to let the market breathe a bit.

 

[clockwork71]

Size depends of the leverage you take and also the risk you are willing to take (where to put a stop?)



If I would be a client from you I would immediately withdraw all my money. You see machines playing ping pong??? I see somebody who has no clue about trading. If you would have a clue you would also trade your own money. The fact that you don't proofs that you know that you have no clue about the market.



I suppose that percentage wise you would put a stop on the same level trading the ES as trading Forex and the leverage should be equal too. So 50 points or not is irrelevant as percentage wise your loss when stopped out would be equal to your Forex stop. You can adjust the risk to the Forex risk you take.

I'm not exactly sure as to what your issue is, but this isn't a dick measuring contest. Clearly, you are lacking something in the real life to be trolling over and over on a trader that is trying to break into a new market. I know what size and leverage is - I have much more control of it in FX, and that was the question - is it a handicap? I think it probably is, until you have a very large account in futures. I also know what trading involves. I don't know FUTURES TRADING, that was the point of the original post, but you have been very helpful. Like anal warts.

A 50 point stop in the ES isn't flexible. It's 50 times 12.50. In FX, it can be 50 cents for that matter. That's the issue.

So the one thing I have learned from you is why forums are a complete waste of time..... oh well, I will figure it out - I figured it out in currencies, I can do it here. Just thought I would ask people that have a bit of success, something that is rare. Especially in forums.

Cheers

 

[schweiz]

A 50 point stop in the ES isn't flexible. It's 50 times 12.50. In FX, it can be 50 cents for that matter. That's the issue.

So the one thing I have learned from you is why forums are a complete waste of time..... oh well, I will figure it out - I figured it out in currencies, I can do it here. Just thought I would ask people that have a bit of success, something that is rare. Especially in forums.

Cheers

You already miss the basics: 50 points is not 50 times 12.50, but 50 times 50, so $2,500. LOL.

Handle 123 also made it clear that you have no clue about trading. He is probably an anal wart too.

...ES did not slam, that was a gift of what is called trend...

...You lack years of watching screens at what volatility really is... J

...People who are naïve are the one's end up bankrupt "paying the market".

You come here showing of that you trade OPM. As you don't want to trade your own money you need idiots that will give you their money. You are even so stupid that you post that you put the risk on them, as you are not sure to make real money.
And then you have problems if you cannot switch size by 50 cents. You probably trade micro contracts in Forex. If you have no money and no clue about trading you should not "trade".
You only figured out that in Forex they play ping pong. ROFLMAO.

 

[schweiz]

You mean 2638.

Watch the timestamp of my posting. It was 2628.50.

 

[Overnight]

Is there anyone out there actually making money at these markets without some kind of algo? I find the lack of liquidity perplexing to say the least. The sudden drops and pops out of nowhere make trading the futures markets difficult for me. However, I don't like to admit defeat - although I have blown several of these 'combines' trying to get it right.

I blew up again today - but am up 3% in my live Forex account. Has anyone here made the jump from FX to futures? If so, what was it that helped? I use to believe that technical analysis can help.....but it doesn't in these markets from what I have seen - at least not on the short-term charts - which is all you can typically afford in real life with the nasty leverage. Also, the lack of scalbility is an issue. (You can only double, triple, etc your size instead of adding 10 percent like FX)

Any thoughts?
Chris

Yer wrong on too many fronts here. Want a RL example? Here's my stupid from the past two days. IN REAL MONEY...

Yesterday, blissful.

Today, blissful, until noontime...

After noontime, I got caught up in the standard, and classic, "whipsaw" that hits markets sometimes. I was up $720, and wanted just 1 more point out of that trade #9. It eluded me, so I culled the loss. Then I kept chasing the target. It never came. It then went apeshit colostomy, I over-traded, and instead of being up, comfortably with 700 bux I am down 1500 including commies.

Those are two-contract trades. There is nothing "unscalable" about it, there is no "boogeyman" out there to get you, there is just market action.

The leverage is not "nasty".

I never made a "JUMP" from FX to futures, I started outright with them. But if you cannot handle the pain, well, I have posted this before, but it is apropos here...This IS what Futures markets are. Be prepared these days.

 

[MarkBrown]

talking about non - algo trading

i don't know how anyone trades es with time based charts lower than 30-60 minutes. i was using tick charts 30 years ago and now range bars. my dad always said don't play another man's game. find your game scalping is not for everyone, i have tried all methods in my years.

my trades last seconds to minutes only, to do that you must be prepared with the best of everything and still have some anticipatory skills backed by valid testing. also the market has different states that it's in you must understand where your at in the phase of the game.

i like to risk no more than a point or two on es trade entries, it makes me better at picking entries. i wait and look for run and gun activity and to participate in the activity you must have sub ten second ping time internet connection setting on a backbone. also necessary is a fast trigger finger and confidence that you have an edge that will play out over time.

so i guess what i'm saying is, it's easy nothing to it so come and play.

 

[cvds16]

I traded forex for 7 years and some. Recently switched to dax an it is like heaven ...
There quite a few tricks to learn but coming from forex that made it all easier.