Not sure one can hide ... good question. I sometimes want to trade (buy or sell) "x" shares, where "x" may be large, and I display 100 and have the remainder in reserve and as I get hit another 100 posts. Not much different than an institution that has 100K to unload and maybe posts 1000 at a time. But if I'm trading normally I may just show that I want 1000 or 2000 to buy (or display the same for a sell).
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Are you a successful at home day trader with no other source of income who began with modest means?
- Thread starter JTrades
- Start date
Not sure one can hide ... good question. I sometimes want to trade (buy or sell) "x" shares, where "x" may be large, and I display 100 and have the remainder in reserve and as I get hit another 100 posts. Not much different than an institution that has 100K to unload and maybe posts 1000 at a time. But if I'm trading normally I may just show that I want 1000 or 2000 to buy (or display the same for a sell).
il
Get wealthy first, folks, then trade. The other way doesnt work!
surf
I agree with most of what you say but, not completely on this. The key though is the premise that "trading for a living with no other source of income" is somehow a worthwhile or noble goal, when in fact it suggests (and no offense to those who are doing this is intended) a stunning lack of business sense or even common sense.
Jim Simmons, founder of perhaps the best hedge fund of all time, an undisputed genius, ran customer money for most of his career, and indeed the business he owns still does in some of the strategies. The big dogs with billions mostly keep the customer funds, they don't want to "trade for a living" on their own dime - even with their billions!
I know a few very successful traders who started small, before they were rich, and then moved forward from that position to become wealthy through trading. here are three stories:
-A guy who was great at SAT tests and built a small business tutoring Brats on the SAT exam. He could tutor the kids outside of market hours, make a good $$ per hour rate, and this supported him while he figured the trading game out. Now he is running a small but successful CTA with low overhead and 50M with 2 20 fees in other words a great living with potential for a home run.
-One guy born to a well off family - literally chilled with his small trust fund for 10 years, figuring out trading, started a few firms that failed, took a corporate job for a time, then after finally "figuring the game out" built a team, and now is one of the names people are familiar with running one of the larger CTA firms.
-A guy who made a few million in the late 90's then failed when vol fell, went into a steep depression as his mom died, all went black. Had to take a shit job for a few years, trading on the side. Kept researching strategies, trading small, completed the CFA program. Made a killing in 2008 trading part time while employed. Married a govt employee - taking the pressure off. AFTER networking started a firm, so instantly has a pool of very wealthy people invested and interested in investing more - already rich by middle class standards, but going for a home run now.
Conclusion is, people who want to be pros need to get over the notion that trading for a living, on your own dime is a noble goal. When I see some dork ask, "why run a service if you are so good" I laugh. That is the viewpoint of an idiot chasing his pipe dreams.
If you want to do this full time, have some business sense. Get some operating leverage with a heavily marketed newsletter/trading call service, or manage other peoples money. If you are extremely intelligent with a technical degree you can try doing prop trading at one of the good firms - though I have seen allot of those guys churn in and out too.
You want to be free rolling enjoying the fight and wealth, not struggling like an average stiff in a cube. Id advise anyone to move towards what works and to stop thinking that there is something noble about "trading as a sole income". Even if you are good you can get hit with a health problem, spouse dies, kid dies, depression, etc, making it a disaster. Use it as a vehicle to get rich, or just do it as a hobby, which there is no shame in at all.
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il
Ok, theres one out of how many? 1000x more laundromat or carwash owners get wealthy than retail day traders-- thats a fact. Get wealthy first, folks, then trade. The other way doesnt work!
Do you live above the poverty level?
Do you know why? The reason is capital is your tool. Enough capital, you may just last long enough for luck perserverance to earn you a fortune. Without the tool of lots of capital, lottery is better odds of living above poverty as a at home day trader.
Its not naive at all. I didnt say it was impossible. There are savants in every endeavor. I did say that i never met one outside of anonymous message board claims.
i will ask what was your capital base when you started. Please dont mislead. Thanks, surf
I worked with a futures broker who's been in the business for over 30 years. He once told me he's never had a single individual client who was profitable in the long run, ever.
I will say this... In order to learn how to trade profitably, you need to survive over time.
That is the reason why I think you're tilting the odds into lottery range if you don't have some sort of other income.
At least for me, and two of the three other successful traders that I know, trading was more of a wealth building activity that coincided with having a job/business. The other guy is a full time forex trader with a six figure income.
Of course trading in longer time horizons is generally required when you have a 8-10 hour per day time commitment with work.
But at least you have the reduced pressure from not having to try to feed your kids and make your mortgage payment each week from trading.
I've never understood why more people don't work on a swing/position trading strategy while continuing to work for your daily living expenses.
The full time day trading thing can surely be done, but I bet the odds of success are 10 fold for those that look at trading as a way to compound their wealth rather than their income source.
Totally agree...I also think most people should learn how to pool their assets (once they've done the necessary research into developing a strategy) to spread the risk.
I agree with most of what you say but, not completely on this. The key though is the premise that "trading for a living with no other source of income" is somehow a worthwhile or noble goal, when in fact it suggests (and no offense to those who are doing this is intended) a stunning lack of business sense or even common sense.
Jim Simmons, founder of perhaps the best hedge fund of all time, an undisputed genius, ran customer money for most of his career, and indeed the business he owns still does in some of the strategies. The big dogs with billions mostly keep the customer funds, they don't want to "trade for a living" on their own dime - even with their billions!
I know a few very successful traders who started small, before they were rich, and then moved forward from that position to become wealthy through trading. here are three stories:
-A guy who was great at SAT tests and built a small business tutoring Brats on the SAT exam. He could tutor the kids outside of market hours, make a good $$ per hour rate, and this supported him while he figured the trading game out. Now he is running a small but successful CTA with low overhead and 50M with 2 20 fees in other words a great living with potential for a home run.
-One guy born to a well off family - literally chilled with his small trust fund for 10 years, figuring out trading, started a few firms that failed, took a corporate job for a time, then after finally "figuring the game out" built a team, and now is one of the names people are familiar with running one of the larger CTA firms.
-A guy who made a few million in the late 90's then failed when vol fell, went into a steep depression as his mom died, all went black. Had to take a shit job for a few years, trading on the side. Kept researching strategies, trading small, completed the CFA program. Made a killing in 2008 trading part time while employed. Married a govt employee - taking the pressure off. Quit job, now operating his own small firm - AFTER networking, so has a pool of very wealthy people invested and interested in investing more - already rich by most peoples standards, but going for a home run now.
Conclusion is, people who want to be pros need to get over the notion that trading for a living, on your own dime is a noble goal. When I see some dork ask, "why run a service if you are so good" I laugh. That is the viewpoint of an idiot chasing his pipe dreams.
If you want to do this full time, have some business sense. Get some operating leverage with a heavily marketed newsletter/trading call service, or manage other peoples money. If you are extremely intelligent with a technical degree you can try doing prop trading at one of the good firms - though I have seen allot of those guys churn in and out too.
You want to be free rolling enjoying the fight and wealth, not struggling like an average stiff in a cube. Id advise anyone to move towards what works and to stop thinking that there is something noble about "trading as a sole income". Even if you are good you can get hit with a health problem, spouse dies, kid dies, depression, etc, making it a disaster. Use it as a vehicle to get rich, or just do it as a hobby, which there is no shame in at all.
Another great post.
Here's another example. Bill Dunn of Dunn Capital Management held a PhD and taught at Cal, raised money from 19 partners, and then built a trading business that manages over $1 billion in assets today.
There are numerous examples like this, and far fewer of the kind were people sit at home day trading their way to millions.
If you can make 15% annual returns consistently, or demonstrate that you have the potential to do so, you can raise some money from friends and family, form an exempt pool, and if you do well, you can then get registered and manage serious money.
I agree with most of what you say but, not completely on this. The key though is the premise that "trading for a living with no other source of income" is somehow a worthwhile or noble goal, when in fact it suggests (and no offense to those who are doing this is intended) a stunning lack of business sense or even common sense.
Jim Simmons, founder of perhaps the best hedge fund of all time, an undisputed genius, ran customer money for most of his career, and indeed the business he owns still does in some of the strategies. The big dogs with billions mostly keep the customer funds, they don't want to "trade for a living" on their own dime - even with their billions!
I know a few very successful traders who started small, before they were rich, and then moved forward from that position to become wealthy through trading. here are three stories:
-A guy who was great at SAT tests and built a small business tutoring Brats on the SAT exam. He could tutor the kids outside of market hours, make a good $$ per hour rate, and this supported him while he figured the trading game out. Now he is running a small but successful CTA with low overhead and 50M with 2 20 fees in other words a great living with potential for a home run.
-One guy born to a well off family - literally chilled with his small trust fund for 10 years, figuring out trading, started a few firms that failed, took a corporate job for a time, then after finally "figuring the game out" built a team, and now is one of the names people are familiar with running one of the larger CTA firms.
-A guy who made a few million in the late 90's then failed when vol fell, went into a steep depression as his mom died, all went black. Had to take a shit job for a few years, trading on the side. Kept researching strategies, trading small, completed the CFA program. Made a killing in 2008 trading part time while employed. Married a govt employee - taking the pressure off. AFTER networking started a firm, so instantly has a pool of very wealthy people invested and interested in investing more - already rich by middle class standards, but going for a home run now.
Conclusion is, people who want to be pros need to get over the notion that trading for a living, on your own dime is a noble goal. When I see some dork ask, "why run a service if you are so good" I laugh. That is the viewpoint of an idiot chasing his pipe dreams.
If you want to do this full time, have some business sense. Get some operating leverage with a heavily marketed newsletter/trading call service, or manage other peoples money. If you are extremely intelligent with a technical degree you can try doing prop trading at one of the good firms - though I have seen allot of those guys churn in and out too.
You want to be free rolling enjoying the fight and wealth, not struggling like an average stiff in a cube. Id advise anyone to move towards what works and to stop thinking that there is something noble about "trading as a sole income". Even if you are good you can get hit with a health problem, spouse dies, kid dies, depression, etc, making it a disaster. Use it as a vehicle to get rich, or just do it as a hobby, which there is no shame in at all.
Brilliant. thank you, Mr. N. !!
I worked with a futures broker who's been in the business for over 30 years. He once told me he's never had a single individual client who was profitable in the long run, ever.
That is one honest broker. Thank you for spreading the truth. surf
Another great post.
Here's another example. Bill Dunn of Dunn Capital Management held a PhD and taught at Cal, raised money from 19 partners, and then built a trading business that manages over $1 billion in assets today.
There are numerous examples like this, and far fewer of the kind were people sit at home day trading their way to millions.
If you can make 15% annual returns consistently, or demonstrate that you have the potential to do so, you can raise some money from friends and family, form an exempt pool, and if you do well, you can then get registered and manage serious money.
Are there any verifiable true stories of guys trading their ways to millions? A few guys on here claim to make a living trading, some would call it eeking out a middle class to lower class time salary grinding away at the markets--- but true wealth? NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER.
It's a myth folks-- it's an insidious myth
il
Ok, theres one out of how many? 1000x more laundromat or carwash owners get wealthy than retail day traders-- thats a fact. Get wealthy first, folks, then trade. The other way doesnt work!
Do you live above the poverty level?
Do you know why? The reason is capital is your tool. Enough capital, you may just last long enough for luck perserverance to earn you a fortune. Without the tool of lots of capital, lottery is better odds of living above poverty as a at home day trader.
Its not naive at all. I didnt say it was impossible. There are savants in every endeavor. I did say that i never met one outside of anonymous message board claims.
i will ask what was your capital base when you started. Please dont mislead. Thanks, surf
AGREE.....Money Makes Money-.. u need CAPITAL to trade. period..
other wise. buy lottery tickets...
Are there any verifiable true stories of guys trading their ways to millions? A few guys on here claim to make a living trading, some would call it eeking out a middle class to lower class time salary grinding away at the markets--- but true wealth? NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER.
It's a myth folks-- it's an insidious myth
Middle to lower class living? LOL Once again you post something false. I'm fortunate to have 2 homes, one an oceanfront house in the northeast for summer & early fall and the other on an island in the southeast. If you measure wealth by $$$$ then you're missing the point of life. I don't aspire to have a billion dollars. But I do have wealth in that I can choose each and every day of my life what I'll do on that day. I'm not a slave to the markets. I have freedom that you can't put a price on.
I'll bet you there are more successful individual traders on ET than the number of times you've been banned here.