Are we elite traders?

[Dinosaur_Supervisor]

No one discloses their edge.

If you keep looking for an edge as a specific secret or strategy instead of putting in work, practice, reading and learning, you'll never succeed in trading. I know successful traders who use technical analysis and I know successful traders who trade with tape reading. I also know traders who use both tools. Each one of them have put years of chart and tape reading, years of trading before they were able to achieve consistent gains.

Edge is not something you disclose or discover, edge is something you build for yourself with hard work and resilience. You trade, you evaluate results over enough time and you ask yourself what have you done wrong and what errors you can prevent in the future. In the end, it's all about the trader's equation. Look it up.

 

[speedo]

D_S is correct. The "edge" is yourself and your work and your behavior. I could spend several days with someone showing them exactly what I do, time frames, studies, entries, exits, rules and filters. We could do many examples and drills and that person could leave with a workbook with those many examples with written rules and filters. Three months later they will be doing something different.....why?, because they are a different person and have different expectations, levels of patience, courage, focus and discipline. Whether more or less is not the issue....the issue is they are themselves and have to find what works for THEM. This takes a lot of work and time.

As far as "elite" goes, don't confuse confidence with ego. Forget about status and do the work. If you do the work and succeed at consistent profitability, you have something better than status.

 

[d08]

If you keep looking for an edge as a specific secret or strategy instead of putting in work, practice, reading and learning, you'll never succeed in trading. I know successful traders who use technical analysis and I know successful traders who trade with tape reading. I also know traders who use both tools. Each one of them have put years of chart and tape reading, years of trading before they were able to achieve consistent gains.

Edge is not something you disclose or discover, edge is something you build for yourself with hard work and resilience. You trade, you evaluate results over enough time and you ask yourself what have you done wrong and what errors you can prevent in the future. In the end, it's all about the trader's equation. Look it up.

You're completely ignoring systematic trading.
I did have a moment when I realized I truly had an edge, it literally was a discovery through data mining in one night sitting in the office late winter. There was nothing gradual about that. I can still recall that day as the feeling of finally discovering an edge that was extremely robust was most satisfying.

 

[BrandNewTrader]

You're completely ignoring systematic trading.
I did have a moment when I realized I truly had an edge, it literally was a discovery through data mining in one night sitting in the office late winter. There was nothing gradual about that. I can still recall that day as the feeling of finally discovering an edge that was extremely robust was most satisfying.

This exactly. The market is huge. New markets and instruments created while defunct, obsolete and naturally exhausted matkets fade. Players leave and or blow up, new players and stakeholders with diff objectives arrive. On balance i would say that there are ALWAYS opportunities to find an exploitable DATA-BASED edge in the market that is SEPARATE from the intrinsic human qualities like attention to detail, diligence, patience etc

 

[Dinosaur_Supervisor]

You're completely ignoring systematic trading.
I did have a moment when I realized I truly had an edge, it literally was a discovery through data mining in one night sitting in the office late winter. There was nothing gradual about that. I can still recall that day as the feeling of finally discovering an edge that was extremely robust was most satisfying.

In retail trading, the event you described is rare. In fact, what you describe seems to something worth much more than a retail trader could ever aspire to take from the markets through discretionary trading.

 

[d08]

In retail trading, the event you described is rare. In fact, what you describe seems to something worth much more than a retail trader could ever aspire to take from the markets through discretionary trading.

You add the word "discretionary" in there which is what I'm not really talking about.
Plenty of people run algos or at least algorithmic approaches while sitting at home.

 

[wrbtrader]

...Anyone who is making fuck you money is NOT posting journals. I wonder about the reality and imagination boundaries on this site and realize it is a mirror of real life... you only know if you are supposed to. Sometimes it happens by accident, but very seldom...

They probably do post journals but just not here at this forum mainly because there's information in the journal they don't want someone having access to. In addition, although you didn't define what that type of money amounts too...they're probably too busy doing philanthropy events, meetings with business organizations in their communities and busy working with those helping them better manage their money.

Therefore, its very understandable why those types of people don't have time to join forums or post public journals. In contrast, they most likely do indeed have "private" journals or some personal assistant doing such for them...once again...privately.

By the way, there's all kinds of definitions of the word edge. There's a dozen threads here at this forum where people get into heated debates about its definition. The fact is this...people do indeed disclose their edges (in reference to methods not automated) at this forum...most likely discretionary traders that forget to mention that the trader is a critical part of that edge.

The issue is those reading it or trying to use it will most likely try to make it their own to fit their own trading style in such a way that's different than the way it was designed or applied by the person that disclosed it.

Once again, the trader is a key component to any so called edge via whatever definition you may being using to define a edge in reference to a discretionary trader. In contrast, if the edge involves automation trading...nobody discloses such. That's why quants and such at institutional trading firms are told to sign those non-disclosure agreements prior to being hired.

 

[zdreg]

What would you class as an Elite trader these days? especially with all the behind closed doors activities going on.

what closed door activities are you referring to?
good to know that conspiracy theories are alive and well.

 

[Dinosaur_Supervisor]

You add the word "discretionary" in there which is what I'm not really talking about.
Plenty of people run algos or at least algorithmic approaches while sitting at home.

If you say so.

I don't believe in good outcomes from long term retail algorithm trading.

 

[wrbtrader]

If you say so.

I don't believe in good outcomes from long term retail algorithm trading.

You could be right. The last few guys caught causing "flash crashes" were retail traders that traded at home...making millions for a few years via algorithm trading before finally getting caught about the flash crashes.

One guy in particular was living at home with his parents and did such out of their basement. For example, one trader is named Navinder Singh Sarao (living in London in his parents home) caused the 2010 flash crash that wiped out nearly 1 trillion dollars in the markets in just a few minutes.

What's amazing about these retail traders using algorithms legally or illegally...the FCMs seems to know whom they are and keeps a close watch on their trading activities. So close that they even "call them" when their trading activities seem suspicious

That's exactly what they did with Sarao on the day of the 2010 flash crash before it happen. They left a message on his parents answering machine and later he called them back and told them the following...

"You can kiss my ass".

Now the arrogant bugger is in jail awaiting trial (currently out on bail or whatever it is called in London) and fighting extradition to the U.S, most of his assets frozen while other millions still missing (most likely hidden in some offshore account). Of course, the parents are clueless to what was happening.

Lastly, many on wall street jokingly refer to retail traders (private traders) entering the algorithm trading as a DIY craze. Regardless, wall street doesn't like it and some have stated they have concerns about the growth of "algorithm trading" among retail traders/private traders.

P.S. His defense lawyers argue that Sarao has a form of autism and argue his trading is not illegal. They say he's only guilty of being "very good at his job" and that it has pssst off many on Wall Street prior to the crash in which he had prior been under surveillance after complaints from Wall Street.

Sarao states he knows "hundreds" of private traders that does what he does. I guess a retail trader using algorithm trading should be careful next time about telling a regulator "You can kiss my ass".

P.S.S. Traders that trade their own money but not a lot of money from home are often referred to as retail traders. In contrast, in