Are those who oppose outsourcing racist?

[RCG Trader]

Quote from Ash1972:

It seems that 'patriotism' - or a particular interpretation of it, i.e. economically favouring people who share the same nationality as yourself - is the only acceptable form of tribalism these days.

If you happen to select your universe as the country you live in, then it is probably correct to want the best for your compatriots and mourn the loss of programming and factory jobs to China and India (unless you're on the next level and welcome their chance to move up the value chain.. but that's another topic).

What if your universe is the world? Should you not rejoice that formerly poor people have a chance to be respected professionals in the global economy?

I'm not really looking at the economic benefits or otherwise of outsourcing here - just the emotions.

Any thoughts?

Yes, it is annoying to me to have to talk to a help desk person whose accent is so thick that I cannot understand him. It is also annoying when they try to "Americanize" their names. If you are Indian, then be that, speak clearly and I will let it go as long as you can help me.

Opposing outsourcing is not racist if it is not about race. 80% of the worlds population is brown/black and if a darker person mates with a lighter one, the tendency is for the child to be darker than the lightest of the parents. What does that mean?

Nothing.


There are many people here who are worried about their culture, or their country being bred out of existence. We are one planet, and one species, those who cannot comprehend that will suffer, but only as long as their own minds imprison them.

 

[Ash1972]

Quote from Scataphagos:

Disagree. Yours sounds like a Leftist/biased view. Isn't your definition of "redistribution of wealth" nothing more than "The big and strong get bigger and stronger while the weaker die off and perish"? That's not "redistribution of wealth, is it? Isn't it merely capitalism?

No, in a capitalist model, wealth is transferred from worse to better, in a socialist model it is transferred from better to worse. It beggars belief how you think my view is socialist.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from Ash1972:

"... Those who OPPOSE outsourcing are acting irrationally as they are saying one group is more 'deserving' than another based on race.

Disagree. Not based upon race. Those opposed to outsourcing, especially unions, are so because of economics... they don't want to give up their well paying job to ANYBODY.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from Ash1972:

My point was that those who are implementing outsourcing are acting rationally by choosing lower paid workers regardless of race, i.e. they just want to make more money. Those who OPPOSE outsourcing are acting irrationally as they are saying one group is more 'deserving' than another based on race.

I haven't seen the opposition saying that at all. It is not a matter of who is more deserving. It is a question of national self-interest. Or call it rational self-interest.

It's hard to see how we can have a viable middle class in this country if the majority of manufacturing jobs and engineering/scientific work is done offshore. We will be left with the sort of third world economy we see developing now, where we rely on extractive industries, agriculture, have vast wealth disparities and politics characterized by demagoguery and class envy.

The ruling elites in this country, of both parties, made an implicit decision that the way to restrain China was to integrate them into the world economic system. Of course, it was an easy decision for the elites because factory workers would be paying the price, not them. It can be argued that the decision worked out brilliantly, maybe too brilliantly.

 

[Ash1972]

Quote from adadadog:

Resounding NO! Just rightfully self-interest.

Yes, it's also in my self interest to prevent someone who can work more cheaply than me from getting the job I want! So I should vote for a government that will prevent cheaper workers than me getting 'my' job, right?

 

[Ash1972]

Quote from Scataphagos:

Disagree. Not based upon race. Those opposed to outsourcing, especially unions, are so because of economics... they don't want to give up their well paying job to ANYBODY.

Yes, but how are the unions JUSTIFYING their position? By saying "I want to keep my well paying job, that's it!!"? No, it's all talk about society, fellow Americans this that and the other. Business owners like to save their money just as much as their employees who want to shop at Walmart.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I haven't seen the opposition saying that at all. It is not a matter of who is more deserving. It is a question of national self-interest. Or call it rational self-interest.

It's hard to see how we can have a viable middle class in this country if the majority of manufacturing jobs and engineering/scientific work is done offshore. We will be left with the sort of third world economy we see developing now, where we rely on extractive industries, agriculture, have vast wealth disparities and politics characterized by demagoguery and class envy.

The ruling elites in this country, of both parties, made an implicit decision that the way to restrain China was to integrate them into the world economic system. Of course, it was an easy decision for the elites because factory workers would be paying the price, not them. It can be argued that the decision worked out brilliantly, maybe too brilliantly.

Spot on!

What made America economically great was a significant middle class.... that grew as a result of (1) less educated could get a well-paying job at the local plant or mill, (2) unions helped the workers get ever higher wages through their usual legalized extortion, and (3) 1 & 2 worked due to lack of competition for manufacturing.

All that is changed now that 300-500 million low labor cost workers have entered the world job market.

Our own economic policies have exacerbated our decline... and we won't be "coming back" in any meaningful way at least until the Boomers die out. Likely, not even then.

 

[olias]

Quote from Ash1972:

It seems that 'patriotism' - or a particular interpretation of it, i.e. economically favouring people who share the same nationality as yourself - is the only acceptable form of tribalism these days.

If you happen to select your universe as the country you live in, then it is probably correct to want the best for your compatriots and mourn the loss of programming and factory jobs to China and India (unless you're on the next level and welcome their chance to move up the value chain.. but that's another topic).

What if your universe is the world? Should you not rejoice that formerly poor people have a chance to be respected professionals in the global economy?

I'm not really looking at the economic benefits or otherwise of outsourcing here - just the emotions.

Any thoughts?

It's a very similar phenomenon to 'racism' but not exactly the same thing. There seems to be a perception that this 'other' is not as valuable as 'us'. It's a persistent illusion that we're all susceptible to.

Think about this: why do we get so much more upset when a tragedy happens in Oklahoma than if a much worse tragedy happens in Bangladesh? We don't care about those 'others' so much. They aren't 'one of us', right? We're not connected to them.... But this is an illusion. Really how are we any more connected to some unknown people in Oklahoma?

So when it comes to outsourcing, my feeling is 'where is that job going to do the most good for humanity?' Undoubtedly that job will make a bigger impact in a third world country.

Also, what's up with this saying of 'God bless the USA'....what does that imply? that the rest of the world is not as important? Let's stop and think about what we're saying and what we're thinking

 

[RCG Trader]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I haven't seen the opposition saying that at all. It is not a matter of who is more deserving. It is a question of national self-interest. Or call it rational self-interest.

It's hard to see how we can have a viable middle class in this country if the majority of manufacturing jobs and engineering/scientific work is done offshore. We will be left with the sort of third world economy we see developing now, where we rely on extractive industries, agriculture, have vast wealth disparities and politics characterized by demagoguery and class envy.

The ruling elites in this country, of both parties, made an implicit decision that the way to restrain China was to integrate them into the world economic system. Of course, it was an easy decision for the elites because factory workers would be paying the price, not them. It can be argued that the decision worked out brilliantly, maybe too brilliantly.

Not bad, not bad at all.

 

[candletrader]

I support the rise of India and China.

We need global economic multipolarity and a fairer distribution of wealth. If that means a few Americans take the hit, so be it... they should try harder.