Are there indicators that help spot breakouts?

[jack hershey]

Quote from jack hershey:

Using trader666's byzantine mess we moved from two trades for the day where a beginner traded trending channels, the coarse part of the sweeps chart with 9 tables.

Then we looked at advanced beginner and saw 5 trades for the day by looking inside the daily trend channel and using the same 1, 2, 3, of annotating the seven adjacent bar cases.

now we go in and drill down another level to do intermediate trading. the same three modules are used by they ae looking into the price action inside the advanced beginner trading.

trading is getting more frequent than trades of long duration (hours so far for each trade).

Here you can see the 3x effect coming into view. Meaning for each prior trade on a lower skill level, now 3 trades minimum are occuring.

We also notice how market pace shifts on the volume rays which delineate the various paces. A pace change affects the annotating of the price envelopes.

Here five trades on the lower level shown before have become 16 trades. I super imposed the levels.

You may also notice that the volume swings fit together with the price swings in a fixed ratio.

I'll briefly plug in another more detailed chartfor kicks to look at advanced intermediate.

Here we are looking at the jem issues as well as the trader666 issues. We are way past where and why the SPM trading gave back more in chop than it took out in early am high paced trades.

At last you can now see the neutral bias trading where there is a 1:1 ratio of price and volume legs back to the detail o9f where the beginner begins to build his annotations using the seven cases.

So where do all the byzantine messes fit in? they are just annotatons of MODE and Sentiment using symbols associated with shapes in the spatial setting. Who would have guessed?

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from Xuanxue:

No but I wouldn't mind catching a glimpse of that pattern jpeg you mistakenly put up and quickly changed.

That looked interesting. Shoot it to me in a PM?

Thanks.

lol..

It is after the one I switched out. you have it.

John Nash was fun to consider. When he wiped Adam Smith out it was comparable to seeing acrary go though the process of shifting from edges to trading markets..

I liked the multi applicability of his treatise as well.

the CIA may not be as interesting as you think...money velocity on three platforms using one template is much more fun.

Its 2008 and we are just up to arguing about 100K a day.....lol...

 

[Xuanxue]

Well you are flippn' nuts, Jack Hershey, but not as slow as I thought.

I noticed too you're the type of wack-job to refer to people as "it". Yours is a psychotic dissassociation disorder that left untreated likely will result in someone's death.

Get some help.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from Xuanxue:

Well you are flippn' nuts, Jack Hershey, but not as slow as I thought.

I noticed too you're the type of wack-job to refer to people as "it". Yours is a psychotic dissassociation disorder that left untreated likely will result in someone's death.

Get some help.

You may want to read more slowly.

I've been through a lot of watching people over the years. And I've spent productive time in pre/post testing; my focus was on learning. Here in ET, what happens, happens and evaluating the pathways isn't cogent.

There are all kinds of people out there. I don't feel that there IS a profile of a person who can become an expert trader. So many can do it if they have four things going for them: knowing how the mind works; knowing how learning to learn works and having a business plan that contians a trading plan within it.

There are profiles (several) of people who leave trading the hard way. If you decide to not learn to trade, don't look to others for a place to place blame.

 

[Xuanxue]

Quote from jack hershey:

You may want to read more slowly.

I've been through a lot of watching people over the years. And I've spent productive time in pre/post testing; my focus was on learning. Here in ET, what happens, happens and evaluating the pathways isn't cogent.

There are all kinds of people out there. I don't feel that there IS a profile of a person who can become an expert trader. So many can do it if they have four things going for them: knowing how the mind works; knowing how learning to learn works and having a business plan that contians a trading plan within it.

There are profiles (several) of people who leave trading the hard way. If you decide to not learn to trade, don't look to others for a place to place blame.

You misread me. I saw brilliance in the patterns you compiled. What you're doing here is babbling to reread your own babble.

The jpeg, without your commentary, for others to "put the breakout pieces together" is the only thing that would be even remotely on-topic in this thread from you.

I've adapted Fisher's and Crabel's patterns; I don't need yours. Though if you want to teach, show your work and let it teach itself. The pictoral representation trumps the defilement that explains it.

I can certainly understand your wanting to keep that part of your work sacred.

Incidentally I'm a Tibetan Buddhist with a knack of cutting through. Use what works and all that.

 

[lilduckling]

Quote from jack hershey:

You may want to read more slowly.

I've been through a lot of watching people over the years. And I've spent productive time in pre/post testing; my focus was on learning. Here in ET, what happens, happens and evaluating the pathways isn't cogent.

There are all kinds of people out there. I don't feel that there IS a profile of a person who can become an expert trader. So many can do it if they have four things going for them: knowing how the mind works; knowing how learning to learn works and having a business plan that contians a trading plan within it.

There are profiles (several) of people who leave trading the hard way. If you decide to not learn to trade, don't look to others for a place to place blame.

Perhaps writing a new book is in order for you...... "Confessions of an E.T. Addict"

 

[steve46]

There are a number of ways to spot breakouts. One of the easiest for retail traders is the "retest". I show a number of examples over at my thread "Ideas for Struggling Traders".

Briefly when price takes out a specific price point, it sometimes returns to retest that point. When it retests that point it will do one of two things, either fail and retrace into the consolidation or continue on its way up (or down). The drawback is that you will miss breakouts that do not retest.

What a trader actually needs however is confirmation that a breakout has legs. Again I like the retest as my principle method because unlike "indicators" it uses primary data, price itself.

After that, if you have the skills (and you have done your research), you can "see" confirmation via accelerating volume either on a wider than average bar or where the entry and exit are at the extemes of the bar. Also one can simply put a time & sales window on, filter to show >100 contracts, and watch the acceleration first hand. This is the way I was taught to see it, but it takes a while to learn.

Finally a valid way to detect breakouts is to watch for what Market Profile adherents call "singles". In theory, price should be stopped or reverse at a confirmed "single". If instead price "fills in" the single, that is a good sign that price will continue on to test the local high or local low above/below the single. Check out Market Profile texts to learn more about that.

Hope this helps
Steve

 

[Anekdoten]

Quote from steve46:

There are a number of ways to spot breakouts. One of the easiest for retail traders is the "retest". I show a number of examples over at my thread "Ideas for Struggling Traders".

Briefly when price takes out a specific price point, it sometimes returns to retest that point. When it retests that point it will do one of two things, either fail and retrace into the consolidation or continue on its way up (or down). The drawback is that you will miss breakouts that do not retest.

What a trader actually needs however is confirmation that a breakout has legs. Again I like the retest as my principle method because unlike "indicators" it uses primary data, price itself.

After that, if you have the skills (and you have done your research), you can "see" confirmation via accelerating volume either on a wider than average bar or where the entry and exit are at the extemes of the bar. Also one can simply put a time & sales window on, filter to show >100 contracts, and watch the acceleration first hand. This is the way I was taught to see it, but it takes a while to learn.

Finally a valid way to detect breakouts is to watch for what Market Profile adherents call "singles". In theory, price should be stopped or reverse at a confirmed "single". If instead price "fills in" the single, that is a good sign that price will continue on to test the local high or local low above/below the single. Check out Market Profile texts to learn more about that.

Hope this helps
Steve

Excellent post Steve, right on the mark contrary to the vast majority of bullshit posted lately.

Thumbs up.

Anek

 

[MandelbrotSet]

I find that having a thread poster just pose a question is often enough to give the mind something to work with and find the answer for themselves.

Nice thread.

 

[Xuanxue]

Quote from steve46:

What a trader actually needs however is confirmation that a breakout has legs.

That all depends how many legs there are in the swing in question where the consolidation takes place relative to the measured move the swing is correcting. If you're talking about scalping then yes. If you're wanting to enter position or swing or are managing one, guaging false breakouts is more complicated than that.

I liked the rest of your post.