Quote from TraderZones:
Leave it to Jack Hershey to back indicators over price action...
The definition of an indicator is that it is a signalling device that LEADS price (in your, case price action).
Look at the price action journal. So far nothing has been posted there that does not have a leading signal (from somewhere else) that preceeds the signals for what is construed as "price action" trading.
Ask expert traders, what is the use, if any, for breakouts?
The use, if any, is that BO's are "confirmation" signals during a profit making segment which is already under way.
During trends there are "internals" all of which have BO's. The 13 common one's occur when a trader has already begun the profit segment long before an internal can set up.
Again look at the price action journal and see how little of the RTH's any of these people are in the market. Also look at all the price movement that slips past these people. If you want to see how bad it can get look at a BO trader like bighog who doesn't log and remembers every losing trade he has had (He blew 200 to 300K before he decided having a trading plan was a possiblilty, he tells us.)
I'm not at choice on indicators or price action. I use leading indicators of price and I frontrun price action as it is understood, generally, in ET.
Logging four sheets a day has more indicator signals on thye sheet than anything else in the M part of the sheet. Every row (about 25 per page) contains monitoring, analysis, decision making, and action.
One week of logging is 500 rows of M A D A. The debriefing from the logging is more comprehensive since it deals with looking at the sequences that happen in the columns (there are 13 for monitoring alone).
Now the punch line. Looking down 500 rows shows that the columns "telegraph" their sequences. These sequences are like the four concurrent calendars of the Mayans which were 10,000 times more precise than our present calendar.
Sequences are indicators. The shorthand of a column is the vocabulary of the column. Sequences are like sentences. They have a unform structural arrangement. This is the third thread of this OP in less than as many days.
If he logged, if he had monitoring symbols to write down what he reads from a display; if he could do this work day by day; if he could debrief and for the first time "see" what is going on, would he be asking these Q's and starting these threads??? No, not a chance.
Price action is a last resort after prior failures of many types. the OP is on the way to piling up a set of failures like SusanaDT did to get to starting the price action thread. She is at the don't use this, don't use that stage. The OP is at the accumulating multi failure stage. You seem to be at the either or stage.
What do expert traders do? They recognize that a routine must be followed. I use MADA. We use multifractals; I use three: level 1, 2 and 3 where 1 comes from asjacent bars doing tapes and internals; where level2 is traverses formed from pairs of level 1's and level 3 are trading channels formed from pairs of traverses. This solid structure is all binary so there isNO probability and instead ONLY certainty.
So I take all that is offered by price change, the only way to make money long or short.
To most (4 out of 5 by sophomoric polling) it is unbelievable and astonishing. That is because of their belief systems. I take what the market offers and they can see the market offering and they believe the offer cannot be taken. strangely, by any measure it is very clear that there is trading going on on every tic price tracerses along its way. I take it because someone is always there to take any trade I wish to do. I feel trading at about 5 times the market's apparent capacity is normal and achievable evey minute of the day. The proof is that it is happeningand alot of people are doing the trades. Those who do the work to build their minds by drilling all the time everyday get mind's that are able to read the markets and read the sequences in the columns of their logs.
Would it take a rocket scientist to make an ATS out of a log or a mind dump from an expert who can make and use the log. At the beginning of my stay here, a programmer (he programs because he blew out finaly a couple of December's ago), read my log and coresponding print and said it was "photoshopped" or equivalent. He said he knew the software I used to do it. What really happened was he couldn't believe his eyes and he figured out what he could believe: "photoshopping". I was a little niave then and hadn't taken the measure of inductive minded traders like you.
People who keep throwing out things that they fail to learn to use, finally get to price only trading, money management and stops for protection and limiting DD's. These people never even get to knowing what side of the market to be on.
You can put up a display with no PRICE showing and trade the display based on just two things" the MODE and the Sentiment of the market. I used to do 6 1/2 hours of trading that way in evening meetings using videos once in a while; it took 40 minutes to knock off 40 trades at a multiple of the H-L. You could call it non price action trading. No one needs to look at a price chart to trade a market. It was fun for the group and fun for me. It relaxed everyone in their slacks.
MODE and Sentiment are the only two indicators a person needs to trade ANY market on ANY fractal during RTH's. Sentiment always gives you direct with CERTAINTY since there are only two choices. there is no probability you could be wrong. MODE always gives you the answer to holding or reversing; there are only two choices and, again, they are mutually exclusive thus, there is NO chance you can be wrong.
I have sufficiency in each and every data set of the MADA routine. There is no probability when you use binary elements in data sewts. Price action traders are, roughly speaking, screwed. They bet on what they see and do "high probability" trades. They back this bet up with money management based on backtesting. Further they set stops to prevent risk of ruinb from setting in and causing them to blowup like my"photoshopping" critique did.
Price action trading is the last techique people use before their inductive reasoning takes them out of the trading exit for the last time. It is their death by a thousand cuts.
The MODE indicator leads price; it has two signals: Continue and Change. They are not opposites. One or the other is present at any time in the present. Sentiment is either long or short. One or the other is present at any given time.
there are four trading conditions: Holding long on continue; holding short on continue; reversing from long to short on Change; and reversing from short to long on Change. You put these indicators (MODE and Sentiment) on your log to the right of the M (Monitoring) columns. you fill in rows of the log and mark MODE with C or X, You mark Sentiment with L or S.
There is a simple choice at hand. I choose to do it because I beleive in BE DO HAVE. You choose to not do it. your reasons are that you do not have the indicators on your display. You do not do logging. You do not do a routine like MADA or OODA. You do not debrief to see the column sequences vertically over time. You do not have a vocabulary of symbols for the M 13 measures of the PV display. and you do not jnow how your mind works and therfore, you do not know that long term memory (knowing what to do at the right time) is missing in your mind.
I trade on automatic and I call it "sports memory". mM trading has shifted to the frontal lobe, fortunately. I know I need to do 2500 plus nuro connections to shift shrot term memory to long term memory, you do not know that the neuron connections go from 1300 aprox to 2700 aprox. these are just facts that mention that work by drilling is involved to make the mind "build" the connections.
Thundedog is up to counting the words in my posts. Mind building for him is history if it ever was possible.
Yes, I use indicators and I take every nickel out of the markets that the market offers. I figured out that price change is how money is made and I figured out you have to be in the market to make money. . Capish????
