Are options a waste of time and money? (pun intended)

[wxytrader]

I have been looking at different option strategies, but none of them seem to have a reasonable chance of making any consistent profits once you factor in risk reward, premiums paid and time decay. Everything is priced to basically cause maximum pain to everybody.

The strategies I was analyzing were Singles, spreads, iron condors, butterflys.

Prove me wrong.

 

[FSU]

Consistent profits will be made trading with edge, not with any specific strategies.

Finding that edge is the tough part, but it is possible.

 

[El OchoCinco]

I have been looking at different option strategies, but none of them seem to have a reasonable chance of making any consistent profits once you factor in risk reward, premiums paid and time decay. Everything is priced to basically cause maximum pain to everybody.

The strategies I was analyzing were Singles, spreads, iron condors, butterflys.

Prove me wrong.

First I suggest you change your mindset completely because it is wrong about investing in general.

Options are tools...the tools do their job when used correctly.

Options dont make consistent profits just because they exist, you have to make the right decisions on the direction/magnitude/timing/volatility of the underlying and know which options work in which situation.

Do you walk in to a construction site and throw a hammer on the floor and complain that the house is not being built so the hammer is useless.

If you buy a call on a stock without understanding volatility and time decay or the stock goes down instead....you are the problem....not the option.

If you do not understand the basics above, then you definitely have no business looking at iron condors and butterflys...

Only thing I can prove is you do not know what options are and how they work and are trying to blame the options for your poor judgment in selecting the underlying stock's direction/magnitude/timing and current IV.

 

[David's faith]

Prove me wrong.

That's easy.
@destriero

 

[newwurldmn]

Prove me wrong.

no.

 

[wxytrader]

First I suggest you change your mindset completely because it is wrong about investing in general.

Options are tools...the tools do their job when used correctly.

Options dont make consistent profits just because they exist, you have to make the right decisions on the direction/magnitude/timing/volatility of the underlying and know which options work in which situation.

Do you walk in to a construction site and throw a hammer on the floor and complain that the house is not being built so the hammer is useless.

If you buy a call on a stock without understanding volatility and time decay or the stock goes down instead....you are the problem....not the option.

If you do not understand the basics above, then you definitely have no business looking at iron condors and butterflys...

Only thing I can prove is you do not know what options are and how they work and are trying to blame the options for your poor judgment in selecting the underlying stock's direction/magnitude/timing and current IV.

Didn't take long for the house "pro" to make an appearance. You are missing my point entirely because you were so eager to pounce. We all understand this...my reasoning is that option strategies are a fools errand.

To use your analogy against you. Options are like getting all the tools needed to build a house, but then the prices of materials sky rocket and you lose, or you run out of time on your permits so you lose, or housing prices plummet so you lose...oh but 3/10 times things work out ok so you recover some of your losses.

If you do not understand the basics above, then you definitely have no business looking at iron condors and butterflys...

Only thing I can prove is you do not know what options are and how they work and are trying to blame the options for your poor judgment in selecting the underlying stock's direction/magnitude/timing and current IV.

Unless you have read this and understand it cover to cover then I would be pretty comfortable in assuming I understand more about options than you do. Also, you prove my entire point because if you are not using options as a tool to compliment the underlying then it is a fools errand. IE the stock repair strategy is a good example of using options and the underylying in tandem.

So again, prove me wrong.

Consistent profits will be made trading with edge, not with any specific strategies.

Finding that edge is the tough part, but it is possible.

As an EW trader one does have an edge of statistically getting directional bias correct in the time frame of the option, but even then the pricing makes it more than likely you will end up at break even or slightly better most of the time because of the premium you pay. Basically the problem with options is having to over come the premium.

 

[Overnight]

...Also, you prove my entire point because if you are not using options as a tool to compliment the underlying then it is a fools errand...

Tell that to the legions of people who are making (and losing) money on the 0-DTE train running at full speed.

Are options a waste of time and money?

You don't seem to be looking for anyone to change your mind or prove you wrong, because your mind is already made up with this attitude...

...but none of them seem to have a reasonable chance of making any consistent profits once you factor in risk reward, premiums paid and time decay. Everything is priced to basically cause maximum pain to everybody.

Go seek destriero's posts, and if you can decipher them maybe you'll be proven wrong?

 

[M.W.]

How do you know? Big mouth = success?

That's easy.
@destriero

 

[M.W.]

Then charge the premium if you think it's overpriced.

Didn't take long for the house "pro" to make an appearance. You are missing my point entirely because you were so eager to pounce. We all understand this...my reasoning is that option strategies are a fools errand.

To use your analogy against you. Options are like getting all the tools needed to build a house, but then the prices of materials sky rocket and you lose, or you run out of time on your permits so you lose, or housing prices plummet so you lose...oh but 3/10 times things work out ok so you recover some of your losses.



Unless you have read this and understand it cover to cover then I would be pretty comfortable in assuming I understand more about options than you do. Also, you prove my entire point because if you are not using options as a tool to compliment the underlying then it is a fools errand. IE the stock repair strategy is a good example of using options and the underylying in tandem.

So again, prove me wrong.



As an EW trader one does have an edge of statistically getting directional bias correct in the time frame of the option, but even then the pricing makes it more than likely you will end up at break even or slightly better most of the time because of the premium you pay. Basically the problem with options is having to over come the premium.

 

[wxytrader]

Tell that to the legions of people who are making (and losing) money on the 0-DTE train running at full speed.

Actually imo 0-3 DTE are the least risky if you know how to manage them. The important part is not oversizing your positions. I eeked out about $1000 in a week of trading 0-1 DTE's with less than 1% risk as a rule. I would also hold them over night, actually I preferred purchase 1 dte and hold overnight. Anyway, it felt like I earned that $1000 because it was a grind, and I looked at is as not gaining $1k but losing out on 10k so started to over size and gave it back pretty quickly. My point is, done correctly, and if you don't mind having to trade every day then it might be the best way to go.