Are financial programmers under paid?

Are financial programmers underpaid?

  • Yes, they sell themselves out too easily

    Votes: 73 40.6%

  • No, they are scum that are mostly lazy

    Votes: 39 21.7%

  • I am not sure

    Votes: 31 17.2%

  • I don't care

    Votes: 37 20.6%
  • Total voters
    180
Quote from Fast_Trader:

The H1 visa crowd doesn't help the situation. Stop bringing in H1 peeps from India and see how the rates adjust :D
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I understand what you are saying. Imo, it is incorrect to blame our brethren from the land of the dragon, or our brethren from the land of the tiger. I have worked with many of them and they are hard working and well trained for the most part.

However, they have almost zero domain knowledge. Even in this case of no domain knowledge, they often take minimal wages (which in Chicago I define as $80k plus bonus for someone who is not right out of school) to work in high intensity environments of financial markets. This is not like working at Walgreens as a programmer. They sell themselves out too cheaply in this industry. However, they are beginning to get it too, imo.
 
Quote from bidask:

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the answer lies in the structure of firms. programmers are "viewed" as interchangeable and expendable back office people. the people doing the viewing are the people in charge. perception is reality.

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That doesn't explain it at all. In any contract, two people have to come to an agreement. If enough programmers say no, the price goes higher, and more accurately reflects value. That is the whole point of what I am trying to convey!

Imo the problem lay in the misrepresentation of price vs value. Most people that get into this business don't know what they are getting into. "Programming is programming". As they gain experience, they begin to realize that the financial markets require more than showing up.

BTW, the Woz is retired a multi-millionaire many times over.
 
nitro, I'm not taking a jab at their ability to program but the fact is, the H1 crowd has driven the rates down substantially. I don't blame them - I mean, they're new to the country and just glad they're even here so they'll take any pay. The industry takes advantage of them. But at the end of the day, the rates get driven lower because they're willing to accept a position for half the pay.
 
Quote from Fast_Trader:

nitro, I'm not taking a jab at their ability to program but the fact is, the H1 crowd has driven the rates down substantially. I don't blame them - I mean, they're new to the country and just glad they're even here so they'll take any pay. The industry takes advantage of them. But at the end of the day, the rates get driven lower because they're willing to accept a position for half the pay.
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Agreed on all counts.
 
Quote from rosy2:

I refer to myself as a programmer because thats what i do all day. but a programmer in the trading industry (or any industry) is just a title.

IMO, if you are in the trading world and you do not get a cut of the PnL then quit. There's no incentive to work otherwise. This is even more true in automated trading where there is no trader other than a clerk who watches systems run.

The main thing is that programmers or tech people don't understand the business in the begining of their career and really think other people are doing something. That causes them to work for less than what they are worth.
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Fsck. I got 140 (total) last year, and they said the bonus was bad because of the financial crisis. I'm getting 120 base now, but I'm an independent contractor though I get a bonus and some shitty health plan. I'm still paying back student costs, and owe $10,000.

I sold myself short, because my resume looks spotty. Problem is, it isn't my work -- I finish the jobs I'm given. It's just that I keep getting screwed when it comes to compensation. I was hoping this new place would work out better, and we're trading profitably.

You guys are demoralizing me. Been real hard to code the last few days, because I keep thinking about how I want to pay off school and then not worry about the rent, but it just isn't happening.

I need to take a real vacation before I lose it, I think.
 
Quote from rosy2:

where i am, minimum for this would be 150k/yr plus bonus. if you make less go somewhere else.
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I'm constantly 'looking' even though I have a job. I don't know if this helps or hurts me.

My NY progression was: 92 -> 110 -> 140 -> now 120 + whatever is coming to me.

Financially, it's never made sense to stick around in any one place but then I get screwed on every negotiation because they say I don't stick around. But why would I stick around if someone is willing to pay more for the same job?

I don't know what to tell these recruiters and employers about my hopping around. Maybe if these douchebags would pay me a fair price up front, I'd stick around.
 
Quote from lolatency:

I don't know what to tell these recruiters and employers about my hopping around. Maybe if these douchebags would pay me a fair price up front, I'd stick around.
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Then that is exactly what you need to convey to them. The trick is to demonstrate what you can do once your foot is in the door, and you've had some time to show off your skills. If you are walking on water in any profession, you stand up for what you think you are worth; you'd be amazed what they will do to keep you.

The H1-B 'crowd'-- hard workers as they are, have additional shackles built into their visas; so they have an extreme disincentive to walk away from or threaten to leave their employers. Be
thankful that you on the other hand, do not, and use that advantage wisely.
 
Quote from lolatency:


Financially, it's never made sense to stick around in any one place but then I get screwed on every negotiation because they say I don't stick around. But why would I stick around if someone is willing to pay more for the same job?
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i agree completely. i used to contract years ago because the rates were so high and fulltime jobs never came close. But now rates are actually lower and fulltime trading programming jobs have gone up (at least in chicago).

I think when people look for a job the should ask if they can get a piece of the pie and ask if they can invest money into the firm.
 
Quote from nitro:


Finally, part of the question was, do programmers sell themselves too cheaply. Perhaps it is because of this that we ourselves set the "market price" and gawd knows markets are efficient.
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Yes and no.

Some firms dont know what a programmer can even do. So if they hire someone good that guy will be bored if not utilized well. If they hire someone bad that guy will always look busy because he's putting out fires.

Other firms know whats required and will pay a lot. There's a few firms here that pay very well.
 
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