Quote from jem:
we have debated this many times before.
First of all deism back then is unlike deism today.
Next Thomas Jefferson in one of his inaugural speeches defined the Creator as the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob.
Next the establishment clause as part of the the bill of rights became part of the constitution because many of the states already had ties to Christianity and they did not wish to have a National denomination.
At the time of the constitutional convention a majority of the states had established religion like tests for people holding office. The office holders had to swear an oath in which they proclaimed a belief in God at a minimum.
All this was cited by me on elitetrader in the past. Look it up.
The US supreme court declared the U.S. is a Christian nation and went through a long restatement of the reasons why. Contrary to some arguments the case has never been over ruled.
Up until the 1950s state govts funded Christianity in government paid for institutions like schools.
Since the 50s the supreme court started taking religion out of public institutions.
I think it would be fair to say that because of activists courts we are no longer a Christian nation. In fact if you were to argue we may now be a secular nation - I would not argue with you.
But it is ignorant of our history to state that Evangelicals are attempting to turn the U.S. from a secular nation into a theocratic one. Evangelicals are only trying to stem the tide of an aggressive organized campaign to denude this nation of its Christian roots.
Frankly - I think it was the enlightened Christian values (which were the foundation of this nation) which allowed all these other religions and atheism to flourish.
As we remove good Christian values from the nation - the vacuum will be filled with crap. And eventually some form totalitarianism may to take its place.
The question may be will P.C. lead to a socialist/communist anti - religious regime or will some other type of religious law become supreme.
In my opinion messing with the great Christian values of the best county in history is an experiment not worth taking. Just look at what has happened to our public schools.
But, if that what the people want fine. I believe in democracy. I am just against it being done by judges.
Gee, i think someone got up on the wrong side of christmas this morning.
You seem to be forgetting, the good christian values you speak of WERE the very basis of native slaughter, civil war, slavery, trial by bible, not evidence.
It never occured to you, that "atheism" flourished as a direct backlash to the appalling hypocrasy of evangelicals, canned, forced religion, of "fallen women", astonishing sexual discrimination, overwhelming industrial scale malevolence
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=660
lynching's, and sheer warmongering?
Activist courts, surely you jest-i dont understand , how you fail to veiw the society of say, 1820-80, as somehow less of a totalitarian regime, by bible, than what you seem to fear now.
The values you seem to beleive in, never really existed, IMO, its simply that those on the other side of them (take your pick) were excluded, marginalised, beaten, murdered, in not too different a manner than modern islamic societies.
To speak of values, in a christian sense, when the bible itself contains but a few pages of christs words, (if that) none of which are particularly adhered to by "christians", seems somehow absurd.
Im certain i understand what your saying, it just rings hollow, on assesment of facts, to me.
Allowing atheism to flourish? No, STOPPING non-beleif isn't totalitarian.
If the bible was so damn good, if the beleif structure was so friggin great, then SURELY it must stand on it's on two feet , and people would simply say "wow, this is the real deal, im so happy no-one shoved it down my throat from the day i was born" buuuut........thats not how it actually works, is it.
Oh, and merry christmas/saturnalia.
