Are all price patterns the same? (examples)

Quote from jack hershey:

My bet is that this person didn't generate any charts complete enough to do an expert analysis.

He probably didn't even include the independent variable of the market in his comparative illustrations.

Whatever conclusions he drew could be believable to the lesser informed part of the financial industry.

Look at this thread.

Ys you see the OP and his helpers are still at the stage where they only look at one end of a bar to figure out this and that. Its humurous.

If you reread this guys works see if you can determine if he uses a Relative DataBase Management System (RDBMS) ever.
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Why use charts if you have rudimentary computer ability? Computers read numbers not charts. Charts are for demonstrating points to fallible humans not computers. Bars and other nonsense is not science but rather a marketing ploy by the markets machinery. You, good sir, have been fooled by geometry.

surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

Why use charts if you have rudimentary computer ability?

You make a most excellent point. Charts are very very secondary to the mathematics your computer does all the time to inform you. there are many ways to display the outcome of the computer mahematics that has been done.

In this way a person can keep a few bars ahead of real time to know he knows when a profit taking is coming up.


Computers read numbers not charts. Charts are for demonstrating points to fallible humans not computers.

this is so true as you can see from the OP of the thread. Demonstration of markets is not even important. the trader focuses on making money by taking the full offer of the market.

Bars and other nonsense is not science but rather a marketing ploy by the markets machinery.

you are going off topic at this point. Information is data provided to the various mathematical categories that form the mathematics that the computer is doing to inform the trader. Information, ordinarily is grouped into statistically significant parcels. the parcels are then exvaluated mathematically and then used to inform the trader. Most traders think and percieve in increments of 10 to 100milliseconds.

You, good sir, have been fooled by geometry.

In markets, geometry is one of the least used trype of mathematics. Aronson mistakenly used geometry in the proof you just presented. He made a mistake and thus, he is not taken seriously.

As stated above, the core of market mnitoring and analysis is done mathematically. the primary driver in the mathematics of market operation is set theory, logic, interlocking events on several descrete levels (See mandelbrot, for example) and so on.

surf
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As eveeryone knows, in markets price is the dependent variable. Waht its meaning is is determined by the independent variable.

the independent variable of the market is the driver of price.

The computer's biggest job is processing the expressions used to describe the unique set of elements in the independent variable.

months ago I gave you, your quant and your workstudy person a way to always make money in the market. Please consult the mathematics I wrote out for your group. you will notice it is intems of how the independent variable is used to make money in the dependent variable of the market. (for readers check out the PP1, end effect and the rules I formulated for MS to be able to use it o always make money in each segment of profits.)
 
jh I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying, and you used some terms without defining them first. Can you post some real time examples to help illustrate what you're saying?

I can take all the after the fact charts and show where the tops and bottoms were, and sometimes I can even tell you why they were a top and bottom.

I can also tell you who won an election after the election is over.

But in real time? Nope.

I'm really only interested in explanations that are useful in real time with the amount of information you have at that given moment.
 
Quote from FreakofNature:

You have got to be kidding me.

No pressure.

All the time in the world to analyze.

The correct bias.

etc etc etc
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Pressure? Why, from where? Nothing to do with a successful trading method, this is a personal problem, fix it.

All the time? Well you need to quantify how much time you need to make your decision, and then set your parameters appropriately. It might be that some of the smaller or faster moves are beyond your ability to capture, and this may limit the number of markets you can manage simultaneously.

The correct bias? No. This is saying you only know what happened after the fact. You need a strategy with some predictive power or you cannot be a scalable and consistently profitable directional trader.

So in summary how you analyse a chart in hindsight should be as close as possible to how you analyse in real time. Same process, same attention to each piece of information. Before you can trade live, perhaps it would be useful to mark up thousands of charts in hindsight. A thousand is around four years of intraday data. There are different cycles in markets, so ten years or more would be useful.
 
Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

jh I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying, and you used some terms without defining them first. Can you post some real time examples to help illustrate what you're saying?

I can take all the after the fact charts and show where the tops and bottoms were, and sometimes I can even tell you why they were a top and bottom.

I can also tell you who won an election after the election is over.

But in real time? Nope.

I'm really only interested in explanations that are useful in real time with the amount of information you have at that given moment.
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I can help you out.

Draw two bars and then draw the Right Trend Line.

Enter the market on the second bar ASAP when you feel you can determine the sentiment of the market. Use the DOM and add together the 5 nearest limit orders on each side of the market to confirm that you are on the correct sentiment (the smallest sum is the correct sentiment).

On ES today use the following four examples: (the named bars are second bars) 8, 14, 26, and 33. The respective sentiment is short, long, short, long.

After a few bars, the close of a later bar is on the other side (right side of the RTL) than the trend you are holding in while making money (as price stays on the left side of the RTL.)

I'll wait until Monday to post the second bars ahead of time. Keep in mind that ET has whiners called "complainers" moderators will delete my calls when they whine by pressing the complain buttion. I am going in short on Monday on bar 1 at the opening price; consider this as an example. The RTL will be above the bar 1
 
Quote from 1a2b3cppp:
I can take all the after the fact charts and show where the tops and bottoms were, and sometimes I can even tell you why they were a top and bottom.

But in real time? Nope.

I'm really only interested in explanations that are useful in real time with the amount of information you have at that given moment.
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Did you see:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3796081#post3796081
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3796094#post3796094
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3796100#post3796100
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3796122#post3796122
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3796125#post3796125
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3796401#post3796401 Out at HOD which was also 3 day high.

I gave some bigger picture context to make the above useful in RM's thread the day before, that I was looking for upside all day. If I marked where I traded that day on the chart, people may think I'd made it up in hindsight. However it is possible in real time. How to learn to do this...you need to find your own voice, as you won't get the answers in books or on a forum. If anything, you'll be distracted by threads such as this with plenty of folks writing lots but saying nothing. I doubt anybody who can trade at a high level will have the inclination to teach strangers online or share details of their methods. So you won't find the answers in this environment. Take a break from forums for a few years if you're serious about learning to trade.
 
Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

If someone cannot give you a specific answer to a specific question, it means one of the following:

1) they are BSing you
2) they are unable to explain in a way you can understand (this happens sometimes)
3) they don't want to teach you

In all 3 cases, they aren't someone you can learn from, so move on.
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4) you didn't get it
 
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