Anything Smaller than an e-mini?

i960 said:
Where here's why I'm arguing it isn't the same: ES is not YM just as ES is not NQ and ES is not TF. Regardless of which one has the closest notional value to ES the component weightings and even individual components are different enough among the major indices such that this emulated e-micro ES contract won't hold up during any significant market volatility and even during non-volatile times may expose the trader to hidden divergences.

Here's a chart of 50*ES-5*YM since 2008. There are plenty of times here where if one went short on this spread (e.g. YM-ES) based on the behavior of ES they would have gotten more than they bargained for. I'd go so far to say as trading it during 2008 would be just plain dangerous.

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Every red area here is an example of where being long or short ES-YM (based on wanting to be long or short ES, respectively) would have resulted in some significantly different gains/losses than expected:

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If you want to trade this spread for *what it is* (strength of DOW components vs S&P500 components), then trade it. However, if you simply don't have enough money to trade ES, don't trade it - trade SPY.
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yes, this topic has been discussed. For long term trading spy is always better no matter how much money you have. Not sure what the margin is to put on es vs ym dollar neutral. It was like 8 ym vs 7 es or something. But for fooling around with no money short term it is a great spread.
 
Someone's already suggested leveraged ETFs. If you need more leverage on top of this then you could always leverage your account 2:1. On a product such as SPXL that would give 6:1 leverage versus SPY. What's an ES contract, about 20:1? Plus you'll be able to control your position size much more accurately with ETFs.
 
I mainly trade es outside the regular trading hours, it's really slow, with one contract you can keep P/L under $100 very easily. Trading SPY is a good idea, when I want to protect my profit but don't want to call it a day, I will trade SPY instead.
 
hurricane_sh said:
I mainly trade es outside the regular trading hours, it's really slow, with one contract you can keep P/L under $100 very easily. Trading SPY is a good idea, when I want to protect my profit but don't want to call it a day, I will trade SPY instead.
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lately it's been very slow, but it sure isn't/wasn't when there is some global turmoil...See Jan-Feb...It definitely picks up around 9pm (CT) and then once again at 2am (CT).
 
der_kommissar said:
lately it's been very slow, but it sure isn't/wasn't when there is some global turmoil...See Jan-Feb...It definitely picks up around 9pm (CT) and then once again at 2am (CT).
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Thanks for the info, I have only traded es for one month. Yes, you are right, European traders come online at 2 am, there will be a drastic change (usually drop), a good chance to hit a home run. :D
 
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