Anyone using saxo to trade futures in the UK?

globalarbtrader said:
It's my understanding that you are only getting paid because the rolldown on the future is in your favour (contango or backwardation). But you are always paying 2.5% over and above what the future is.

So if the rolldown is 10% in your favour on a long futures position, then if you are long you will be earning 7.5% and if you are short you will be paying 12.5%.



Well I'm not day trading, so the break even for me would be much higher. Of course it's true that with a large enough expected profit there will be a point when the tax advantages outweigh the costs.

But I have fairly conservative profit expectations - conservative because I'm definitely going to be paying those trading costs regardless of my profits - and I'd probably be looking at a very large account before it would at least theoretically make sense to spreadbet.

And there are other issues with spreadbetting firms, like counterparty risk and the fact they can play games with quotes - for example you are likely to be paying a significantly wider spread if youre doing the size required for the tax advantages to make snse. Plus they don't offer the same range of products as someone like IB.

I am willing to concede that I'm biased in favour of futures, and as I've said spreadbets will make sense for some people (as long as they aware of the risks and costs). But not me.

GAT
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Thanx again.

I think with stocks and low volume stocks for sure, as you move higher in pound per point the spread gets wider and as you said they can do what they want.

But I know for a fact stuff like Nasdaq cash futures/Dow etc you could do £100 a point and still get the same price/spread as someone doing £2 a point. I am not sure if £100 would be classed as too small for you, but for most it's a very big position. (£100 for those that don't know is worth 1.1 million + on the Nasdaq 100)

Anyone with a decent system in place doing £100 a point daily I am sure will be very well off to say the least.
 
If you are betting long term the only viable option is to find a shop that only charge the spread every quarter or so, without any finance cost. Even then for most instruments the spread is very expensive. For example IG Nikkei225 have a 20 point spread vs 5 or 1-2 for futures.

Otherwise most shop charge base rate + 250bps for financing which would easily kill your profit.

From what I have gathered

Spread betting pro
tax free
higher leverage/less margin

Con of spread betting with quarterlies
quote is not real quote and is controlled by the shop
Pay spread every quarter which range from ~10bps to a 2-3% each year
Can't move in and out without paying the awful spread

also risk:
tax rule change and counter party risk
 
Alexpung said:
If you are betting long term the only viable option is to find a shop that only charge the spread every quarter or so, without any finance cost. Even then for most instruments the spread is very expensive. For example IG Nikkei225 have a 20 point spread vs 5 or 1-2 for futures.

Otherwise most shop charge base rate + 250bps for financing which would easily kill your profit.

From what I have gathered

Spread betting pro
tax free
higher leverage/less margin

Con of spread betting with quarterlies
quote is not real quote and is controlled by the shop
Pay spread every quarter which range from ~10bps to a 2-3% each year
Can't move in and out without paying the awful spread

also risk:
tax rule change and counter party risk
More...

I agree with most of what you said.

BTW Nik 225 is 7 point spread during market hours, I actually trade that one sometimes.

Regarding quotes not being real. With stuff like the Nasdaq 100 the spread will always stay the same, it actually went to 1 point yesterday! There is enough volume for them to always match the direct market. Something no one has touched on in this thread and it's a massive pro...IG offer guaranteed stops, which have worked well for me before.

I used that for the last CPI shock number, so you know exactly what your max loss is if it gaps, also risk/reward can be amazing on those ones when it gaps in your favour. As you all know in the direct market with IB etc your stops don't help when markets gap.
 
tradingpoker said:
I agree with most of what you said.

BTW Nik 225 is 7 point spread during market hours, I actually trade that one sometimes.

Regarding quotes not being real. With stuff like the Nasdaq 100 the spread will always stay the same, it actually went to 1 point yesterday! There is enough volume for them to always match the direct market. Something no one has touched on in this thread and it's a massive pro...IG offer guaranteed stops, which have worked well for me before.

I used that for the last CPI shock number, so you know exactly what your max loss is if it gaps, also risk/reward can be amazing on those ones when it gaps in your favour. As you all know in the direct market with IB etc your stops don't help when markets gap.
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You get Nikkei with 7pts spread? I suppose that is without any daily rollover charge?
Can I know which shop please?

edit: If you are referring to IG the 7 pt spread is for DFB which they charge you an arm and a leg for the daily finance fee. To avoid the finance charge you have to trade the quarterly future which is 20 pts spread and they force you to pay the whole spread during rollover.
 
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Alexpung said:
You get Nikkei with 7pts spread? I suppose that is without any daily rollover charge?
Can I know which shop please?

edit: If you are referring to IG the 7 pt spread is for DFB which they charge you an arm and a leg for the daily finance fee. To avoid the finance charge you have to trade the quarterly future which is 20 pts spread and they force you to pay the whole spread during rollover.
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Yes correct, but I am day trading only.

So for me it's 7 points. Pre market it's 15-30 points!
 
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