So, you expect your customers to put money on the line on forecasts that they have no idea how they were derived. I mean by all means if there are takers, but to me such forecast is worthless due to its opaque nature. So, I am getting more confused now. What value added are you actually providing? Is it fair to say that you process market IVs and reflect them in appealing visuals as well as sell storage and compute packaged as a scanner? Because most who take this business seriously run their own models/forecasts and pricers.
Anyone using Real-Time Options Scanners / Screeners?
- Thread starter joezapp
- Start date
looks like a gap in the market for maat@orats to do it properly now all the other services are failing.
I think so, ZBZB. I've all but exhausted my search, and I think you have as well. Your research matched mine. On the surface, it seems that such a true real-time service no longer exists. Or if it does, it is either a) obscure, or b) reserved for the greedy professionals and kept away from the retail trader.
Matt_ORATS
Sponsor
Good points, MW. It is critical for traders to develop their own models, and it is important to understand how calculations are derived, especially if you are putting dollars behind them.
However, I do not agree that opaque calculations make them worthless. We do communicate in general how we calculate proprietary indicators. I'm sure you understand that we have spent millions on hiring data scientists to develop these calculations, we do not just give them away. We have many large institutions, with probably greater than a trillion in assets in aggregate, that use our data. Some use it to check their calculations, others we don't know how they use it.
We have been developing these calculations for 20 years at ORATS, and 10 years before that with my market making firm. It is difficult for people to recreate how we, for example, maintain a dividend database and solve for residual interest before beginning our smoothing process. This smoothing delivers superior greeks and theos. It is not just processing market IVs as you say. Check out how terrible the IVs are on thinkorswim and most other front-ends and compare them to ours if you want to see the quality of what we do.
Another example is the consistency of skew summarizations that come with using delta on the x-axis help produce data that can be meaningfully forecasted. Even if you do not use the forecasts, the data itself is of higher quality and unique enough to start the user’s journey into making their own forecasts.
The value is in the calculations using what we have learned over 30 years of market making and trading. We have built backtesters to prove out the calculations and to use to develop models. And yes, we have built scanners using advanced cloud database technology and visuals to help bring all this to users in fast and appealing ways. That is the value of what we do.
However, I do not agree that opaque calculations make them worthless. We do communicate in general how we calculate proprietary indicators. I'm sure you understand that we have spent millions on hiring data scientists to develop these calculations, we do not just give them away. We have many large institutions, with probably greater than a trillion in assets in aggregate, that use our data. Some use it to check their calculations, others we don't know how they use it.
We have been developing these calculations for 20 years at ORATS, and 10 years before that with my market making firm. It is difficult for people to recreate how we, for example, maintain a dividend database and solve for residual interest before beginning our smoothing process. This smoothing delivers superior greeks and theos. It is not just processing market IVs as you say. Check out how terrible the IVs are on thinkorswim and most other front-ends and compare them to ours if you want to see the quality of what we do.
Another example is the consistency of skew summarizations that come with using delta on the x-axis help produce data that can be meaningfully forecasted. Even if you do not use the forecasts, the data itself is of higher quality and unique enough to start the user’s journey into making their own forecasts.
The value is in the calculations using what we have learned over 30 years of market making and trading. We have built backtesters to prove out the calculations and to use to develop models. And yes, we have built scanners using advanced cloud database technology and visuals to help bring all this to users in fast and appealing ways. That is the value of what we do.
Makes sense, and as said, I do see value in an aggregator who gathers, stores, and processes raw information that often has to be manually adjusted. Most ibanks still employ entire data teams with several individuals devoted to cleansing data. A reliable dividend and general CA database is worth paying fair value for. The proprietary indicators we need to agree to disagree. But I can see how customer demand differs, as said, for me I only need reliable raw data, I possess the analytical and quant skills in many asset classes, including options, to utilize such data. Being able to focus on what one does best is a definite benefit worth paying for.