I've been swing trading a few SSFs to get the feel for them, as some extra punch in an IRA account. Not a good experience. They don't always track the underlying perfectly, the spreads are wide, and the volume is nothing to get excited about. I've even had a few experiences of no bid/ask quoted at all when I wanted to exit, even though the underlying was trading actively. So they certainly are not appropriate for active trading.
anyone trade single stock futures?
- Thread starter shovel52
- Start date
I've been swing trading a few SSFs to get the feel for them, as some extra punch in an IRA account. Not a good experience. They don't always track the underlying perfectly, the spreads are wide, and the volume is nothing to get excited about. I've even had a few experiences of no bid/ask quoted at all when I wanted to exit, even though the underlying was trading actively. So they certainly are not appropriate for active trading.
I agree what do you mean dried up. Perhaps consolidating a bit here and there but definately cash is raining if your in the game.
def
Sponsor
from one chicago:
OneChicago reported today record volume of 243,198 contracts on Tuesday,
Dec. 9. In the busiest trading day since the Exchange's launch in
November of last year, 22 different OneChicago single stock futures traded
more than 5,000 contracts, equivalent to 500,000 shares of the underlying
stock. The top 5 contracts traded were: Honeywell International (HON1C)
with 13,293 contracts traded, PeopleSoft (PSFT1C) 8,578, Exxon Mobil
(XOM1C) 9,411, Schlumberger (SLB1C) 8,276, Proctor & Gamble (PG1C) 8,228
and Coca-Cola (KO1C) 7,866.
Open interest reached 236,436 contracts on Tuesday, also an Exchange
record.
With Tuesday's active trading, OneChicago also surpassed the 1.5 million
mark in cumulative contract volume. As of December 9, 1,719,417 contracts
had traded at the Exchange, representing 171 million shares of common
stock.
Click here to read the press release:
http://www.onechicago.com/060000_press_news/press_news_2003/12102003.html
For a complete volume and open interest report, click here:
http://www.onechicago.com/oc/oc_040800.jsp
Thank you to all the market participants who continue to help build a
liquid, dynamic marketplace for trading security futures at OneChicago.
We appreciate your business.
-------------------------------------------------------
OneChicago: The Exchange for Single Stock Futures(sm)
Copyright (c)2003 OneChicago, LLC
www.OneChicago.com
delivery: they settle into physical. thus if you have shares in your account, they will offset at expiration. Is that what you're asking?
also, blank market: if your broker supports it, you should use the quote request function to ask the MM's to respond with quotes (via IB you can do this via clicking on the order line and choosing RFW).
OneChicago reported today record volume of 243,198 contracts on Tuesday,
Dec. 9. In the busiest trading day since the Exchange's launch in
November of last year, 22 different OneChicago single stock futures traded
more than 5,000 contracts, equivalent to 500,000 shares of the underlying
stock. The top 5 contracts traded were: Honeywell International (HON1C)
with 13,293 contracts traded, PeopleSoft (PSFT1C) 8,578, Exxon Mobil
(XOM1C) 9,411, Schlumberger (SLB1C) 8,276, Proctor & Gamble (PG1C) 8,228
and Coca-Cola (KO1C) 7,866.
Open interest reached 236,436 contracts on Tuesday, also an Exchange
record.
With Tuesday's active trading, OneChicago also surpassed the 1.5 million
mark in cumulative contract volume. As of December 9, 1,719,417 contracts
had traded at the Exchange, representing 171 million shares of common
stock.
Click here to read the press release:
http://www.onechicago.com/060000_press_news/press_news_2003/12102003.html
For a complete volume and open interest report, click here:
http://www.onechicago.com/oc/oc_040800.jsp
Thank you to all the market participants who continue to help build a
liquid, dynamic marketplace for trading security futures at OneChicago.
We appreciate your business.
-------------------------------------------------------
OneChicago: The Exchange for Single Stock Futures(sm)
Copyright (c)2003 OneChicago, LLC
www.OneChicago.com
delivery: they settle into physical. thus if you have shares in your account, they will offset at expiration. Is that what you're asking?
also, blank market: if your broker supports it, you should use the quote request function to ask the MM's to respond with quotes (via IB you can do this via clicking on the order line and choosing RFW).
STILL low volume, regardless of the RECORD volume...im sure more record volume days will be met, at least i hope so for all those trading SSF. SPREAD are way to wide.
As an equities options trader, i would love to see the SSF...and my hopes are that they will add a little volitity to the underlyers which would help to increase the delta's on my options.
As far as futures go, DRY UP.....I dont think so. Futures are far more liquid than SSF and they have gained volume. Of course with the holidays coming, the Funds locking in profits, and end of the year on us...volume may dry up a little. But i have seen many opps to make money in futures, hell yesterday NQZ where down huge..... To day it was tight, but not much moved.
As an equities options trader, i would love to see the SSF...and my hopes are that they will add a little volitity to the underlyers which would help to increase the delta's on my options.
As far as futures go, DRY UP.....I dont think so. Futures are far more liquid than SSF and they have gained volume. Of course with the holidays coming, the Funds locking in profits, and end of the year on us...volume may dry up a little. But i have seen many opps to make money in futures, hell yesterday NQZ where down huge..... To day it was tight, but not much moved.
Quote from SethArb:
my broker now claims that SSF's fall into the PDT rule too ?
I just don't get it ... THE S.E.C. wins again over the little guy ...
Doesn't make sense. SEC doesn't regulate futures. No PDT rules for futures, any piker can play and lose money and the SEC won't stop you....
SSF suck, they are a big joke with small volume
Cheers
50
I've traded some SSF at times. In the SSF's I've looked at there is decent size on the quote. C for instance is one that I've done recently. At the time I traded there was 100X100....the equivalent of 10K shares either way.
That said, you're going to have to trade at the bid or the ask....which is probably a little wider most of the time than the stock. This is going to make it impractical to 'scalp'. But if you want to swing trade, I think these are workable.
My suggestion would be that if you want to swing trade a stock, take a look at the SSF, see what type of size is on the quote and whether that works for you.
One thing I don't like is there is no extended hours on the SSF.
OldTrader
That said, you're going to have to trade at the bid or the ask....which is probably a little wider most of the time than the stock. This is going to make it impractical to 'scalp'. But if you want to swing trade, I think these are workable.
My suggestion would be that if you want to swing trade a stock, take a look at the SSF, see what type of size is on the quote and whether that works for you.
One thing I don't like is there is no extended hours on the SSF.
OldTrader
a good day volume wise on the 9th but my SSF did not do diddly
on the 9th ... as volume was 24 contracts ??
and today .... I got snookered .... trying to hold out for
the last penny .... was able to sell my SSF's on NQLX
but the MM for ONE in this name ... did not pay up
Single Stock Futures Open High Low Close Settle Change Total EFP
Newmont Mining Corp Hldg Co. 74 volume
NEM1C Z3 (Dec 03)
on the 9th ... as volume was 24 contracts ??
and today .... I got snookered .... trying to hold out for
the last penny .... was able to sell my SSF's on NQLX
but the MM for ONE in this name ... did not pay up
Single Stock Futures Open High Low Close Settle Change Total EFP
Newmont Mining Corp Hldg Co. 74 volume
NEM1C Z3 (Dec 03)
http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-one11.html
BY DAVID ROEDER Business Reporter
Barely a year ago, Chicago became Ground Zero in a contest to dominate a new type of financial trading based on single-stock futures.
Two exchanges set up shop here to list the futures, and one already is a clear winner. But you won't hear much cheering over the outcome, even though there's a local rooting interest. The victorious exchange is owned by three financial markets in Chicago.
The whole concept of single-stock futures, a contract tied to expectations of a given stock's value, just hasn't caught on. Some analysts have suggested the contracts act too much like an option, a common investment for betting on a stock's prospects.
"We're clearly off to a modest start,'' said William Rainer, chairman of OneChicago LLC, the electronic market that has taken the volume lead over its rival, NQLX LLC. OneChicago's owners are the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Chicago Board Options Exchange and the Chicago Board of Trade.
OneChicago volume most days is just a few thousand contracts on individual stocks or stock indexes. In contrast, daily volume at the CBOE usually exceeds 1 million contracts.
"No one can be terribly surprised'' by the slow start, Rainer said. "It's an enormous challenge to educate people in this environment.'' He noted that in the securities business, trading volume is down and firms' profits have been squeezed since the reckless markets of the late 1990s.
Meanwhile, business in futures has boomed. With its close ties to Chicago traders, OneChicago may have benefitted from that connection.
Each month since last summer, OneChicago has been posting a 2-to-1 lead in trading ratios compared with NQLX. The owner of NQLX, an electronic market based in London called Euronext.liffe, brought significant skills to the fight.
Euronext.liffe pioneered stock futures in Europe. But it has taken steps widely read as conceding ground in the U.S. market to OneChicago.
On Tuesday, NQLX said it was suspending trading in 29 single-stock futures that were conducting no business at the exchange. The list included major companies such as Walt Disney, Time Warner and Boeing whose parts in recent controversies could have stoked investor interest in the futures.
Bob Fitzsimmons, chief executive of NQLX, said he too was surprised at the lack of trading in some of the companies. But he said NQLX opted to make things easier for trading firms and market makers by concentrating efforts on more popular issues, such as its contracts tied to the Russell 2000 index. Trading in more than 60 other security futures continues at NQLX.
"Our volume has not been a tremendous success and we need to build a critical mass,'' he said.
Fitzsimmons also said Euronext.liffe remains solidly behind the venture. "We're definitely not throwing in the towel. This is going to be a very long game,'' he said.
In Europe, it took three years for stock futures to "gain traction,'' he said. Trimming unpopular contracts reduces market oversight costs for NQLX, Fitzsimmons said.
In June, an original co-owner of NQLX, the Nasdaq stock market, gave up its interest in the venture.
Fitzsimmons said NQLX has focused its marketing on the Wall Street power centers, the equities trading desks where futures are sometimes a foreign concept. "We have to do a better job of educating the marketplace,'' he said.
OneChicago lists futures on more than 80 stocks plus several indexes, including "Diamonds,'' a contract that tracks the Dow Jones industrial average.
Analysts said individual investors have taken little interest in stock futures. "I don't know if enough people know about it,'' said Errett Van Nice, a first vice president at stock brokerage Wayne Hummer Investments LLC. He said he's had no inquiries from clients about stock futures.
Many experts have said the futures are more appropriate for investors comfortable with risk. Stock futures generally require a 20 percent margin, vs. a 50 percent margin for equities trading accounts.
BY DAVID ROEDER Business Reporter
Barely a year ago, Chicago became Ground Zero in a contest to dominate a new type of financial trading based on single-stock futures.
Two exchanges set up shop here to list the futures, and one already is a clear winner. But you won't hear much cheering over the outcome, even though there's a local rooting interest. The victorious exchange is owned by three financial markets in Chicago.
The whole concept of single-stock futures, a contract tied to expectations of a given stock's value, just hasn't caught on. Some analysts have suggested the contracts act too much like an option, a common investment for betting on a stock's prospects.
"We're clearly off to a modest start,'' said William Rainer, chairman of OneChicago LLC, the electronic market that has taken the volume lead over its rival, NQLX LLC. OneChicago's owners are the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Chicago Board Options Exchange and the Chicago Board of Trade.
OneChicago volume most days is just a few thousand contracts on individual stocks or stock indexes. In contrast, daily volume at the CBOE usually exceeds 1 million contracts.
"No one can be terribly surprised'' by the slow start, Rainer said. "It's an enormous challenge to educate people in this environment.'' He noted that in the securities business, trading volume is down and firms' profits have been squeezed since the reckless markets of the late 1990s.
Meanwhile, business in futures has boomed. With its close ties to Chicago traders, OneChicago may have benefitted from that connection.
Each month since last summer, OneChicago has been posting a 2-to-1 lead in trading ratios compared with NQLX. The owner of NQLX, an electronic market based in London called Euronext.liffe, brought significant skills to the fight.
Euronext.liffe pioneered stock futures in Europe. But it has taken steps widely read as conceding ground in the U.S. market to OneChicago.
On Tuesday, NQLX said it was suspending trading in 29 single-stock futures that were conducting no business at the exchange. The list included major companies such as Walt Disney, Time Warner and Boeing whose parts in recent controversies could have stoked investor interest in the futures.
Bob Fitzsimmons, chief executive of NQLX, said he too was surprised at the lack of trading in some of the companies. But he said NQLX opted to make things easier for trading firms and market makers by concentrating efforts on more popular issues, such as its contracts tied to the Russell 2000 index. Trading in more than 60 other security futures continues at NQLX.
"Our volume has not been a tremendous success and we need to build a critical mass,'' he said.
Fitzsimmons also said Euronext.liffe remains solidly behind the venture. "We're definitely not throwing in the towel. This is going to be a very long game,'' he said.
In Europe, it took three years for stock futures to "gain traction,'' he said. Trimming unpopular contracts reduces market oversight costs for NQLX, Fitzsimmons said.
In June, an original co-owner of NQLX, the Nasdaq stock market, gave up its interest in the venture.
Fitzsimmons said NQLX has focused its marketing on the Wall Street power centers, the equities trading desks where futures are sometimes a foreign concept. "We have to do a better job of educating the marketplace,'' he said.
OneChicago lists futures on more than 80 stocks plus several indexes, including "Diamonds,'' a contract that tracks the Dow Jones industrial average.
Analysts said individual investors have taken little interest in stock futures. "I don't know if enough people know about it,'' said Errett Van Nice, a first vice president at stock brokerage Wayne Hummer Investments LLC. He said he's had no inquiries from clients about stock futures.
Many experts have said the futures are more appropriate for investors comfortable with risk. Stock futures generally require a 20 percent margin, vs. a 50 percent margin for equities trading accounts.
Hi Def,
Since you are reading this thread, I have a couple questions about trading SSFs with my IB IRA account.
Can I sell short SSFs with my IRA account?
If so, will short stock be delivered to my account on expiration, or will there be a forced rollover or something?
I would like to take advantage of the short side of the market with my non-margin IRA account if/when the trend changes.
Thanks in advance,
Banker
P.S. Any news on when we will be able to trade odd lots on NYSE and AMEX stocks? This rule of yours has eliminated them from my radar for this account. Otherwise I love your firm.