Anyone pulling money out of MF Global?

Quote from cashcarewins:

The brokerage is not in bankruptcy, it is in receivership / liquidation by the SIPC with consent of the CFTC. We all better hope it stays that way.
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The details are lost on me. What would be different if the brokerage arm were declared to be in bankruptcy vs in receivership?

Here's what Wiki says:

Bankruptcy

Bankruptcy is a legal status of an insolvent person or an organisation, that is, one that cannot repay the debts owed to creditors. In most jurisdictions bankruptcy is imposed by a court order, often initiated by the debtor.

Bankruptcy is not the only legal status that an insolvent person or organisation may have, and the term bankruptcy is therefore not the same as insolvency. In some countries, including the United Kingdom, bankruptcy is limited to individuals, and other forms of insolvency proceedings, for example liquidation and administration, are applied to companies. In the United States the term bankruptcy is applied more broadly to formal insolvency proceedings.

Receivership

In law, receivership is the situation in which an institution or enterprise is being held by a receiver, a person "placed in the custodial responsibility for the property of others, including tangible and intangible assets and rights."[1] The receivership remedy is an equitable remedy that emerged in the English Chancery courts, where receivers were appointed to protect real property.[2] Receiverships are also a remedy of last resort in litigation involving the conduct of executive agencies that fail to comply with constitutional or statutory obligations to populations that rely on those agencies for their basic human rights.[3] Various types of receiver appointments exist:[1]

a receiver appointed by a (government) regulator pursuant to a statute;
a privately appointed receiver; and
a court-appointed receiver.[1]

The receiver's powers "flow from the document(s) underlying his appointment – a statute, financing agreement, or court order.
 
Quote from FreeMarketRider:

The details are lost on me. What would be different if the brokerage arm were declared to be in bankruptcy vs in receivership?

Here's what Wiki says:

Bankruptcy

Bankruptcy is a legal status of an insolvent person or an organisation, that is, one that cannot repay the debts owed to creditors. In most jurisdictions bankruptcy is imposed by a court order, often initiated by the debtor.

Bankruptcy is not the only legal status that an insolvent person or organisation may have, and the term bankruptcy is therefore not the same as insolvency. In some countries, including the United Kingdom, bankruptcy is limited to individuals, and other forms of insolvency proceedings, for example liquidation and administration, are applied to companies. In the United States the term bankruptcy is applied more broadly to formal insolvency proceedings.

Receivership

In law, receivership is the situation in which an institution or enterprise is being held by a receiver, a person "placed in the custodial responsibility for the property of others, including tangible and intangible assets and rights."[1] The receivership remedy is an equitable remedy that emerged in the English Chancery courts, where receivers were appointed to protect real property.[2] Receiverships are also a remedy of last resort in litigation involving the conduct of executive agencies that fail to comply with constitutional or statutory obligations to populations that rely on those agencies for their basic human rights.[3] Various types of receiver appointments exist:[1]

a receiver appointed by a (government) regulator pursuant to a statute;
a privately appointed receiver; and
a court-appointed receiver.[1]

The receiver's powers "flow from the document(s) underlying his appointment – a statute, financing agreement, or court order.
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Hi FreeMarketRider,

So what is MF Global status now, is it under Bankruptcy or Receivership. CIPF- Canada website mentioned that, they only compensate when broker become "Insolvent".

I'm a bit confuse now..... :confused:
 
MF Global the brokerage is being liquidated by the SIPC appointed trustee to safeguard the return of customer assets.

The parent company, MF Global Holdings, is in bankruptcy.
 
MF Global Clients May Be Required to Share Cash, SIPC Head Says

Quotes / Excerpts from Stephen Harbeck in a Bloomberg Businesweek article this morning.

http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-LUCYMF07SXKX01-3NEFRLKDGHPU7KL7G9FDV4KGNC

“Distribution of the assets will be pro rata, if there's insufficient there to fulfill all obligations,” said Stephen Harbeck, president of the Securities Investor Protection Corp., or SIPC.

Unless the missing cash is found, people hoping to recover 100 cents on the dollar may have to give up some of it to other customers, Harbeck said yesterday a phone interview.

“Giddens can't let out more than a low percentage of assets before he knows what he owes to all commodity customers,” Harbeck said.

By law, while SIPC can compensate securities customers for missing cash, it can't advance funds to commodity customers to replace cash, he said.
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I am beyond confused as to what is happening with the MF Global positons.

Has anyone here had their old MF Global open positions transferred to a new broker and have been able to trade with the new broker, close positions out etc?

As far as I understand, nobody with futures accounts in 100% cash has seen a cent transferred over to a new broker. Correct?

What happens if someone was long BTP (Italian bond) futures with MF Global and now the futures are several big figures lower? Presumably these folk's positons were liquidated once the cash in the futures account was used up? Or are such positons being unwound as we speak?

In terms of the ongoing liquidation of futures postions not transferred across to new brokers...do we have any idea for how long the liqudation process is going to take? Has a timeline been set? Or are we in the dark here too?

Perhaps someone could attempt to answer the above to the best of their knowledge as I'm sure I'm not the only one with unanswered questions. Thanks.
 
Also from the following article:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...global-account-amid-questions-from-regulator/

it states:-
"By late Sunday afternoon, people inside this group (JP Morgan) continue to doubt that the JPMorgan account represents the missing money, though these people still haven’t ruled out that at least some of the missing $600 million is at JPMorgan."

How the f*ck can JP Morgan NOT know what the $600 million relates to? All businesses know what every single cashflow relates to, it purpose, never mind a figure as big as $600 million. So if it is not the MFG customer money, JP Morgan should be able to say so, definitively. Or if it does, they should fess up ASAP.

Why the silence? How can this be a grey area for them?

Their lack of clarity on this issue (either way) makes them as culpubale as MF Global. Or perhaps they did make a clear statement and I just missed it?
 
Quote from benwm:

I am beyond confused as to what is happening with the MF Global positions.
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As I understand it, those with open positions had those positions transferred to another broker. Only the positions moved and even then only 75% of the margin requirements (that doesn't make sense to me either) - no excess liquidity thus margin calls for every one. Oh yea, due end of business Monday. Yah! The money however was frozen from being liquidated by the CME who wanted to ensure all the transfers were correct. That was to be released end of business yesterday.

Those of us who, you know, did the right thing and went to all cash assuming we did actually have positions on, have no information as to when we'll have access (or how) to that cash.

There is nothing concrete announced from the bankruptcy trustee. <I>Everything</I> out there story wise about the money and where it might be and how much might be lost and how big a haircut/holdback and claim forms and how it'll be transferred and when it might be are all rumors.
 
Quote from steve0617:

As I understand it...
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Thanks Steve. I had not heard/read that the positions had been moved over yesterday. Do you know if that was that for every exchange?

Imagine if you'd been long BTPs all this time? They're absolutely puking ever since the bankruptcy.

Did you hear about the Rule 1.29? :eek:

I think it's terrible how this has dragged on for over a week now. Shows how unprepared the futures industry was and hopefully some better customer protection will come out of the mess. The decision to move across 75% margin just doesn't make any sense to me. If anything they should have moved across more than 100% margin, not less, just to avoid the immediate margin calls. Sounds like it was designed by regulators and accountants, not by traders.
 
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