Anyone notice an uptick exempt edge?

[mschey]

Whether or not I am rich depends on how you define the term.

As for your post, I see you are still full of a lot of hot air. If you put half the effort you put into posting towards improving your trading, I have no doubt you would be making good money. Attitude and perception is important in this business and I have no doubt that your trading is negatively impacted by yours.
Maybe an ET hiatus would be in order? BTW, there is no charge for that piece of advice.

I am responding to 777 post, an obviously disgruntled and unhappy trader and like you, he feels a need to point out how everything everyone does to make money just doesn't work, and he feels the need to validate himself by making the last post.

There is a significant difference between the few ETF's that are available and the fact that we now have 1000 stocks to hit and get short on. This significantly lessens the competition to get short, and allows for many other trading opportunities. I won't go into the details of the types of trading opportunities I see, because I have no need to prove this to you. If other traders would like to know about the edges I see, please send me a PM, and I will respond when I get time.

As for the rest of your post, well, I don't have time to read it let alone respond to your comments. You may have the last word!

Good trading to all!

Mike

 

[areyoukidding?]

Quote from Hydroblunt:

Do you stare at yourself in the mirror for hours and praising what a super trader you are? No really, cause you have to mention in your every single post how great you are doing and how you have been doing great forever and ever and ever. Ok, the point is understood, you are SUPER DUPER so enough with the bragging already. If you need that much self reassurance, go get some professional help cause your nonstop egotistical posts only make others having a rough time feel worse. Most are having a rougher time every day, my office was practically empty by 12pm today, I have been in for a total of 7 hours in the last week and a half so the last thing I need to hear is how great it is for your pompous a$$. If you wanna help out a little, that is very cool but as for your nonstop praise for yourself, well take that sh*t and shove it where the sun don't shine and hopefully you will finally get enough of yourself.

But besides that, lets get back to the thread. See, unlike mschey the super duper billionaire trader, I, Hydroblunt, the barely any motivation to go in anymore trader, will actually say smth informative about the possible "edge" of the uptick exempt stocks. There is one and it's actually not worth what you give up. You lose 2 edges to gain one, so far it's not worth it but at least there is smth. You give up market short take downs and bounces in order to be able to get short that stock that just blew off psychotically and spiked. Prior, it was near impossible to be short when the buyer was finished unless you were almost gambling and guessing, now you just hit the bid with the sellers. Of course, since everyone and their mother can jump in, the pullback move is cut down but hey at least it's actually possible to get in. On the stocks with the steadier buyers, it is sometimes an edge to just hit bids as the buyer is finishing but once again, too many ppl getting short usually makes it a tough ride to capture any profits. The moves are cut down thanks to all the programs & daytraders fighting for pennies.

IMO, it's a disadvantage. Market shorts & bounces happen about 10 times more than those crazy blow off spikes so in essense you are giving up more opportunities for less. Simple bounces are like the safest and best risk/reward trades on NYSE, and now 1/3rd of them are gone for the wonderful chop chop mess. Just take a look at how most stocks in the Pilot program are trading when they are not in play, which is roughly 80% of the time. Whipsaw just like the futures. Even with action some of these are a horrific nightmare thanks to this rule. I trade CAI, he is in the list, better moves were made with the uptick rule. It's a thin stock and it is on occasion an edge to hit the bids fast right prior to the move down but overall it is not worth the chop chop whipsaw that you have to deal with most of the time.

Like someone said before in a prior thread. You can short the futures and ETFs on downticks. You rich yet?

I think Hydro actually is telling it like it is. The guy hes flaming is deserving it big time. I think he is full of sh ite too, it s obvious. You always have that piker in your trading room who is scalping small size and thinks he is Steven Cohen or George Soros or will be in a couple of years at most. these guys that just pick off specs and scalp for pennies are just destroying the market in my opinion. eventually they all go away.. and then a new crop comes in...its a cycle we are in now.

 

[chiguy]

the new rule seems to make the openings more orderly....

when an issue opens down there does not seem to be a large overhanging offer of shorts trying to get out....

all in all it seems a subtle change...

 

[Hydroblunt]

Quote from mschey:

Whether or not I am rich depends on how you define the term.

As for your post, I see you are still full of a lot of hot air. If you put half the effort you put into posting towards improving your trading, I have no doubt you would be making good money. Attitude and perception is important in this business and I have no doubt that your trading is negatively impacted by yours.
Maybe an ET hiatus would be in order? BTW, there is no charge for that piece of advice.

Dude why don't get a real perspective on what is going on. You have mentioned that you have been trading for 5 years. Well buddy boy, you and I are nowhere near our starts, I did not get a chance to properly trade when trading was easy. I started 2 years ago, I caught the last 3 months of any real institutional action as I turned profitable & "got it" for which I am grateful. Christ, looking back, that was like free money, some of the easiest tape reading I have ever seen and this is while I saw guys that were having easy 30-40k months a year ago, unable to make anything GROSS.
You think you are hot sh*t? I sit next to a trader that started 4 years ago and he makes your month in one day. Even he states how rough this market is and when I tell him that I barely feel like coming in anymore, he does not disagree with my perspective. He UNDERSTANDS that traders in my position cannot take the risk that the big boys take in order to make anything significant in this market. So don't act like you are anything special, your consistency is not all that impressive considering the good times you have been through. I can come in and make a consistent 50-400 bucks a day, that does not get me ANYWHERE with the market getting worse by the day and prices for basic needs rising at an astronomical rate.
I am 99% sure that you would not have lasted in my shoes while I would have made a whole shitload of money in yours. You do not know my situation but unlike you I have posted my P&Ls on a couple occasions while you only talk of how great you are. I have different standards for trading, a measly living is not a future in this country where inflation is running rampant. Nevertheless, I do not doubt you make money, after all if you did not make money in 2001-2003, then you should not have been trading.

I am responding to 777 post, an obviously disgruntled and unhappy trader and like you, he feels a need to point out how everything everyone does to make money just doesn't work, and he feels the need to validate himself by making the last post.

Why shouldn't traders be disgruntled. Get a f**king grip, this is not a competition where everyone wants to get the prize of surviving the toughest trading environment, it's a game for MONEY. The smart money left these pathetic markets in 2001 for real estate, think about that, they did not even find 2001-2003 worth touching. You know, there is a whole world of trading outside the played out NYSE. Yes the world of speculation actually spans outside even trading vechiles. So wake up, a person getting disgruntled with a crappy market is just that person recognizing that there are much better opportunities out there.

There is a significant difference between the few ETF's that are available and the fact that we now have 1000 stocks to hit and get short on. This significantly lessens the competition to get short, and allows for many other trading opportunities.

You fool, if everyone and their mother is getting short, how is that less competition? Are you blind, you are trading a market that is almost all speculators, you are battling hedge funds, programs and other day traders. Maybe you are paying rock bottom commissions, but some of us are not. I can't compete with a program that does 10 mil a month and pays almost .001 per share, hence is more than willing to fight for pennies.
You traded through 2001-2003, don't you remember bullets? They were free money at first but then as almost every NYSE trader started using them, it became a nonstop churnfest. Now there are not even market shorts to provide a possibility of that move and instead broken up sizes battle in tight ranges, just like ETFs and futures do. You do recognize that big market shorts provided volatility and now those are gone. Please explain how taking away volatility provides more trading opportunities.

I won't go into the details of the types of trading opportunities I see, because I have no need to prove this to you. If other traders would like to know about the edges I see, please send me a PM, and I will respond when I get time.

As for the rest of your post, well, I don't have time to read it let alone respond to your comments. You may have the last word!

Good trading to all!

Mike

Great, then do us a favor and stop with your nonstop praise for yourself if you really have nothing to prove to anyone. I do not even doubt your claims that much since our last argument but I am sick of your lame bragging. It's to the point where you practically scream that you are either full of sh*t or are simply incredibly insecure. I have never met one successful trader that actually throws it into the faces of others what a great time he is having while most are having a rougher time by the day. What any respectful guy would do is offer REAL advice & perspective not some BS "be positive and happy" when the reality is that trading conditions don't change when you smile.

 

[mschey]

Quote from areyoukidding?:

I think Hydro actually is telling it like it is. The guy hes flaming is deserving it big time. I think he is full of sh ite too, it s obvious. You always have that piker in your trading room who is scalping small size and thinks he is Steven Cohen or George Soros or will be in a couple of years at most. these guys that just pick off specs and scalp for pennies are just destroying the market in my opinion. eventually they all go away.. and then a new crop comes in...its a cycle we are in now.

I have made money every year for five years, and those that know me know how I trade and that I get the job done. I trade pretty good volume, and make money in all market conditions. Flame on if you will, a couple of losers like you and hydro need this type of validation to support your meager existance.

As for hydro, well last time he an I chatted he was taking 200 lots on arca, which exemplifies a PIKER IMO!

 

[mschey]

Wow HYDRO that was some post, I hope you feel better, and I am honored that you think so much of me that you were willing to take at least an hour to construct a lengthy post in my honor!

What you fail to realize my little boy, is that my P&L last year and this year is nearly as good as my best year of the 3 years prior when you think "trading was good". The fact is I am a multi threat player who makes money in nearly any type of market and you, well, you're not much of a threat at all! While your busy telling me how I can't make money because of the short sale rule, because everyone is heading for the door, I am the one on the other side of the trade providing the liquidity and taking your lunch money. In fact, I am willing to bet that you have had your lunch money taken from you your entire life. While you are busy constructing hours and hours worth of posts on ET, I am researching strategies and reviewing my trades virtually guaranteeing my continued success. While you are busy worrying about how good trading use to be, I am busy asking myself "what other markets can I trade?"

So to all other traders out there, take notice, you can either spend hours and hours with a bad attitude and putting your efforts into worthless tasks like posting on ET, or you can decide to focus on how you are going to maximize your earnings in this current market and how you will build your business going foreward. I recommend the latter, otherwise you will end up like HYDRO and his good friend AREYOUKIDDING? You don't want there trading accounts.

Good trading to all!

Mike

P.S. If I was only making $50 to $400 a day, I would be upset too! Perhaps it's time to change your strategy or approach or quit the market? Trading for 30k year is not worth it IMO. Heck, If I was as broke as you, I might be a little more humble, I would be doing whatever I could to learn from the guys that are getting it done instead of insulting successful traders.

 

[Hydroblunt]

Quote from mschey:

What you fail to realize, pops, is that I am getting PAID right now while you are sitting at home playing with your tiny self and desperately researching how you can fight for pennies and how you can lower your commissions even more.

Oh and by the way, I actually never said you could not make money, I actually said I know you can because I will take Don Bright's word for it. I'm not some insecure loser who can't state it how it is whether I like it or not, unlike you. Even though you have never posted any results while claiming to be all that, I still take your word for it. On the other hand I have no problem posting my results while admitting to their shortfalls and my personal dissapointment. I had NO PROBLEM stating that I was trading 100 SHARE LOTS at a new firm with new software and after barely escaping a bad environment where I was going through a rough time and probably would have quit trading if I had not left. You doubted my progress and I posted it, after which you turned it around to start insulting me because I put myself into a position from which I had to recover by sizing down and going to the basics. Sorry chump, not all of us were lucky enough to collect free money so that we can just start throwing more size around if we had a rough time and switched firms. Yes, SUPER DUPER TRADER, the correct answer is to size down and go back to the basics so that you can get back out. I do more size now than I ever have, if I trade >200k it means Im taking it light. And it took me a few months to get back to that point.
Why don't you get off the assumptions, I do not know 'areyoukidding" and my trading account is fine. You did not touch any of my money since I barely traded the last week and half because after having a horrible April (meaning I MADE a very dissapointing sum of money) and I barely have any motivation to go in and trade a sh*tty market when I can spend my time in more fruitful ways.
Stop playing yourself, you probably think that Nasdaq is a whole foreign market comparing to NYSE while my money is already invested in a real foreign market while having direct trading access to it. Stop thinking you're anything special or know anything just because you been around for 5 years, your insecure and demeaning attitude shows you for what you really are. You need to open your eyes and realize that guys that have started out in the past couple years and survived are 10 times the trader you are or ever will be. I see what REAL traders with 4-5 years experience can do now, you're a joke.
It took me a year to realize just how lucky I was to catch the last of institutional action of Oct'03-Jan'04, I can and will actually admit that had I started 6 months later, I would not have survived.
You think you are any good cause you got a huge headstart during easy money? Put yourself in a situation of a new guy that just started last year, you would be running home crying within 2 months. Get some respect for what is going on in this market and be grateful for your huge headstart. Maybe you can understand why some guys are so upset. Hard work and a smile on the face do not make a difference when the market gets tighter every month and living expenses are rising. Simple math, chump, it does not make sense unless you are in a position where you trade at a much higher level. I just had my best days, my best streak and my best earnings weeks in the second half of March, a freaking off peak trading time. WTF does that mean to me when the market turns significantly worse once again in April, earnings season and makes all that progress dissapear. This ain't fantasy land where things are fair, this is a brutal & unfair game where luck and circumstances allow bad traders to make easy millions one year and good traders to struggle for chump change in another year. The work hard, smile, be positive, adapt nonsense only goes so far, the market does not give one sh*t about that.
Your "advice" is meaningless, I'm in an office with guys who show me the real potential of these markets everyday, yet I know I am not yet in a position to do what they do. Maybe if they and I switched bank account & trading accounts. I have my own standards, I am not willing to spend a few more years battling it out for cents as the market gets worse, making it to the next level just in time for the conditions to get worse again. Some are, more power to them, but I have to seize my other opportunities as I already have let too many of them get away while trading a deteriorating market. But at least I am not like you, some bitter hostile a$$hole who cannot stop bragging about himself as he seeks some kind of approval and reassurance from a message board.

 

[mschey]

Delivering pizzas is noble work there HYDRO, keep grinding out that lunch money!

You don't deserve to make the big bucks, because you have a pisspoor attitude, you're never wrong, and you're not willing to work for it, and you are unwilling to change. That's why you are failing at this business! Grow up, stop blaming everything and everyone else for your lack of profitability.

or, you could just not trade altogether. You won't be missed by many!

 

[maxpi]

Fundamentals are important in everything. I'm a moderately good pool shooter because I took some lessons and got the fundamentals down after many, many hours of practice. Just how to hold the cue, where to look, how hard to cue the ball, etc, no english at all. I beat some pretty good players occasionally and they can't figure out how I do that, they keep looking for the english and the fancy stuff and I don't do it. Same goes for shooting baskets, I practiced that until I was moderately good, it was as much of a mental game as anything, and well, I am moderately good at it and I know it. I've been reading this thread with the argument and all and I'm thinking that Mschey has his trading fundamentals down, does well and all the hotshots around would not believe it if they saw it.

I'm looking at the 5min chart of CAI for today. It opened and broke support right away, that is one trade, then it reversed and broke resistance going to a new high FOR THE YEAR, that is two trades, it then offered 2 small loss trades during the afternoon and then it broke support and ran down towards the end of the day. I'm saying that there were 60% winners and the W/L was about 3:1 for the day just off of very fundamental trading methods well known to most. Mschey has a lot more experience than I do and probably could do twice as well.

If you don't know your fundamentals and you rant a lot.... well.... you probably will blow out your account and have to go get honest work somewhere.

 

[Hydroblunt]

Quote from mschey:

Delivering pizzas is noble work there HYDRO, keep grinding out that lunch money!

Funny. When you find a pizza shop at 9W 57th Street in New York City, let me know cause we're sick of calling your dad to deliver our food.

You're the one with the crappy ungrateful attitude so get a life. As for failing, my bank account and side investments say otherwise but then maybe I should just become a pompous d*ckhead and live in some fantasy land where I just keep posting on a message board about how great I am. Seems to work for you, I can tell from the irrefutable proof you provide. I'm glad to see that some "failure" as myself is enough to keep you from your "research", it speaks volumes about your "success". Get real prick, you're only around because you were lucky enough to start trading when you did. The market will humble your arrogant a$$.