Anyone not making 200k a year from trading is a piker

[goodvintage]

I am a proud piker! I am a proud piker! I am a proud piker! I am a proud piker! I am a proud piker!

Repeat after me.

Seriously, people. 90% here are pikers. So what? Trading is not just about money (though it is), but also about lifestyle. I trade 3-4 hours a day, not even every day, from the comfort of my home and don't have to answer to any boss. That alone is worth a lot to me. In fact, it's priceless.

 

[yz125]

Gentleman gentleman

You are all missing something

Trading is a entrepreneurial adventure. As such any one undertaking such an event shall have to accept that fact.

Little bit about me.
I come from England left college ( a levels) at 18. Was weighing up going to Uni or not. Decided Uni was nether going to enhance what I wanted to archivein my life. Remember you can tell any employer that you have a degree anyway they never check, use some balls and chance it, fortune favors the brave.
I wanted to trade for a living so got a job in an investment bank mizuho after bullshitting my a level results and my in depth knowledge of IT. Bare in mind I shit you not I had never sent an email or done excel before, got slung out of my IT class at 14 for dicking about. Blagged that job and made progress but wasn't for me. I was young and wanted to trade my own account. Opened up an account with ib with £13000 in which I had saved up.
Was full off excitement about my new business and how much money I could make. After 6 months I was up 12% with only 4% drawdown. This was a poor performance for me after thinking I would be up at least 300% at least, I know I was young and stupid at the time.
I decided I needed a lot more capital to make a living at this game even though I was trading es on leverage only risking 1% a trade. So in 2005 I started a window cleaning business to build capital. Since then I employ 5 workers and make in excess of £ 100000 a year on this business alone through hard work and determination.

I now have a considerable amount of money by investing in property which I live in and building up my isa each year. Although I have not returned to trading the es I have been trading uk equites and have been having ok success using leverage and compounding. I'm not at the point off earning $200000 a year yet but not far off, but certainly am including my other business earnings.

What I'm really trying to say is that if you have it in you, you will make it work. You won't go thinking shit like missing job oppurtunities and that bollocks. Nope are for people with no vision and testicles. I have stated to my friends before you can make yourself a millionaire out of picking dogshit for a living as long as you pick enough
And employ enough people.

If you worry about your shit missed oppurtunities in a job do not and I repeat do not even bother trying to trade for a living. Successful traders and businessman survive whatever and know they will survive whatever and getting a job never even enters their minds.


Apoligies for any spelling or grammar can't be bothered to re read of to bed

 

[gmst]

Quote from toc:

gmst, what are you trading btw for 4 years?

started out with fx and stayed put with it for first 2 yrs, then added index futures to the mix. Last month, I have started researching US stocks. I will probably start trading US stocks in 2-3 months from now. The platform I used for first few years (MC) is inappropriate for testing hundreds of equities. So, doing a lot of custom coding work in excel now to get myself setup for trading equities.

 

[bwolinsky]

Makes less than my 1000 yr GDP bet than me regarding effect of ftt?

 

[toc]

Quote from gmst:

started out with fx and stayed put with it for first 2 yrs, then added index futures to the mix. Last month, I have started researching US stocks. I will probably start trading US stocks in 2-3 months from now. The platform I used for first few years (MC) is inappropriate for testing hundreds of equities. So, doing a lot of custom coding work in excel now to get myself setup for trading equities.

it's extremely tough to make money trading the futures and fx. if you have gotten the hold of this bull by the horns then well done!

 

[blah12345678]

Quote from gmst:

started out with fx and stayed put with it for first 2 yrs, then added index futures to the mix. Last month, I have started researching US stocks. I will probably start trading US stocks in 2-3 months from now. The platform I used for first few years (MC) is inappropriate for testing hundreds of equities. So, doing a lot of custom coding work in excel now to get myself setup for trading equities.

If you're looking to trade stocks EOD or longer, you should look at TradingBlox. It's pricey. It doesn't have any real-time capability. It doesn't connect to any brokers.

But it's full-featured backtester with portfolio-level trade and money management, adjustments for slippage and commissions, and lots of reporting broken down by portfolio, by instrument, by month/year.

The only problem I had with it was the need to create smallish portfolios of stocks (works great for futures). I couldn't throw 6,000+ symbols at it because the backtester would bog down and take forever.

That was 4 years ago. I do not know the extent of any changes or improvements since then.

 

[gmst]

Quote from blah12345678:

If you're looking to trade stocks EOD or longer, you should look at TradingBlox. It's pricey. It doesn't have any real-time capability. It doesn't connect to any brokers.

But it's full-featured backtester with portfolio-level trade and money management, adjustments for slippage and commissions, and lots of reporting broken down by portfolio, by instrument, by month/year.

The only problem I had with it was the need to create smallish portfolios of stocks (works great for futures). I couldn't throw 6,000+ symbols at it because the backtester would bog down and take forever.

That was 4 years ago. I do not know the extent of any changes or improvements since then.

Thanks for suggestion. I have heard about them, I will go ahead and check them out in detail. What is your current choice software for doing eod work on stocks and also for doing intraday work on stocks?

 

[stock777]

Quote from EliteTraderNYC:

Never heard of the term Piker before but I will assume it has a derogatory connotation. I would say if a trader is still below 200k after 2-3 years experience then he's a Piker.

I would say that anyone that said that is probably a losing trader.

 

[Qwerty]

Quote from gmst:

College graduates are at a different stage of their lives. There is no sense in comparing college graduates with full time traders. If you want to compare full time professional traders, the correct comparison would be against their alternate careers be it at a Walmart store or in an investment bank.

I think the most pertinent observation has been from a guy who said "one should aim to make 3x of the income one can make in his alternate career". I think it is a good benchmark that every trader can apply to his particular situation.

Well even college graduates that are supposedly working at a later stage of their career, earning over 200K per year is a stretch in light of today’s economy. How can that possibly not make any sense to you? Are you living on planet Mars? It’s certainly not the booming 1980’s. Perhaps the key point here is that your standards would be viewed as remote. I think I get it, you must be an Ivy League graduate. The exclusive 1% club, certainly not the 99% club.

The 3x more income benchmark you speak of is a reflection of a personal opinion. It’s certainly not reflective of a general consensus. But if you belong to that exclusive 1% club, well… I suppose it’s a sign of laziness and that you’re really not ambitious at all.

A 3x benchmark you speak so fondly of is not the standard to end all standards. It’s a standard that is applicable to some while other traders will surely scoff at it. A one size fits all benchmark is ludicrous. But not so it appears if you belong to the 1% club.

 

[gmst]

Quote from Qwerty:

Well even college graduates that are supposedly working at a later stage of their career, earning over 200K per year is a stretch in light of today’s economy. How can that possibly not make any sense to you? Are you living on planet Mars? It’s certainly not the booming 1980’s. Perhaps the key point here is that your standards would be viewed as remote. I think I get it, you must be an Ivy League graduate. The exclusive 1% club, certainly not the 99% club.

The 3x more income benchmark you speak of is a reflection of a personal opinion. It’s certainly not reflective of a general consensus. But if you’re an Ivy League graduate, well… I suppose it’s a sign of laziness and that you’re really not ambitious at all.

A 3x benchmark you speak so fondly of is not the standard to end all standards. It’s a standard that is applicable to some while other traders will surely scoff at it. A one size fits all benchmark is ludicrous. But not so it appears if you belong to the 1% club.

You have misread me. I said I think 3x income vs your alternate job income makes sense. I also said that a full time successful trader should make at least 200k a year. If you put these two together, you end up with 200k/3 = 67k per year salary in your alternate career. You would certainly agree that college graduates can make 60-70k in this economy as well.

For any ivy league guy with 100-150k assured income, he should be making around 300-400k income from his trading for the career risk to make sense. Of course, just my opinion. Others might differ.