Sounds like no joke to me. You haven't visited EliteTrader long enough yet.
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Anyone interested in managing an account
- Thread starter sussex
- Start date
Quote from keyser1:
Actually no one was able to make the requested return.
8% a month (after fees) is 251% a year when compounded (1.08^12). I'm guessing the thread starter wants their money compounded, or else wheres the challenge?
Now, just to make sure everyone gets this right. 8% a month after fees is ~10.7% a month before fees. 10.7% a month = 338% annualized.
If I could do that, I'd only have to start with $1000, compounded at 338%, within 10 years I'd have $194 million.
If we were to start with 700,000, that would make $136 billion, putting you on the cover of forbes.
So goodluck with that.
How about management fees?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=887744#post887744
Quote from OddTrader:
My 2 cents again:
A manager with performance of 50% returns and 10% MaxDD would easily design a program offering 25% returns and 5% MaxDD, in order to earn more management fees. This kind of programs could attract probably many more clients for several commonly known reasons.
An investor expecting to return 100% (4X of 25%) would have to pay the manager 4X or 8% management fees (instead of 2%) and risking higher MaxDD 20%.
Perhaps that would make many funds practically perform poorly when comparing to some private traders, I would guess.
Quote from risktaker:
I could do 60-100% per year BUT not with the acct in your name. Why? I'm not interested in disclosing my trading techniques and strategies. This is why you may have to go with a hedge fund which is properly set up to manage OPM. Most good traders are not going to give away their techniques to somebody who may turn out to be a hedge fund and invite tons of competition for his fills.
I think there must be some conditions:
When managing OPM for family's and friend's, would that be fair to use an alternative strategy that whould be hard or impossible for reverse-engineering, traded in some liquid Forex markets, designed with front-running set-up, moderate returns, and moderate MaxDD, etc.
Are there some HFs and CTAs using individually managed accounts to manage OPM, particularly for institutional investors when requested?
Quote from sussex:
I am looking for a top performing trader to manage an account for me. Those interested will need to show an excellent long term track record with a reasonable sized account, minor drawdowns and a solid money management system.
I wish to gross inexcess of 8% per month after commissions with an initial account of approximately $700,000. I will pay an performance/incentive fee of 25% of profits at the end of each month. A 'high water mark' will apply with a 2+ year investment horizon.
I am based in Europe. Anyone interested please mail me initially.
8% per month... 25% incentive?
You're dreaming.
I'm still laughing at the possibilty of someone who can produce greater than 8%/month return and only take 25%. Why on earth would they want to manage OPM?
I suppose there might be people who DO manage accounts individually. But I'm sure it just become too hard to keep track of so many accounts and positions. Performance probably ends up sufferering as a result. But if a trader manages 1-3 accts as 1 portfolio, whether it be stocks, futures, currencies, etc, I think it's better from a risk/performance standpoint. For me anyway, it's just too much crap to take on another account with it's own series of trades.
Quote from OddTrader:
I think there must be some conditions:
When managing OPM for family's and friend's, would that be fair to use an alternative strategy that whould be hard or impossible for reverse-engineering, traded in some liquid Forex markets, designed with front-running set-up, moderate returns, and moderate MaxDD, etc.
Are there some HFs and CTAs using individually managed accounts to manage OPM, particularly for institutional investors when requested?
Quote from risktaker:
I suppose there might be people who DO manage accounts individually. But I'm sure it just become too hard to keep track of so many accounts and positions. Performance probably ends up sufferering as a result. But if a trader manages 1-3 accts as 1 portfolio, whether it be stocks, futures, currencies, etc, I think it's better from a risk/performance standpoint. For me anyway, it's just too much crap to take on another account with it's own series of trades.
Perhaps MAs would be good for providing much transparency and security to some investors such as institutions, FoFs and family offices.
As far as I know of the managers on ET, both Fitrol and Schindler would manage MAs, min $300k for Fitrol and $500K for Schindler (or $20k for fund).
I often keep tracking various forex players, according to IASG others like IKOS requireing $1,000K for MAs (or $500k for fund) and Drury $20,000k for MAs (or $100k for fund).
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...erpage=6&highlight=ib and family&pagenumber=5
That says according to NFA, CTAs are basically for MAs. In other words, CTAs would keep lesser secrets to their clients.
Quote from Aaron:
Thanks for the heads up about our website. I'll check into it.
Here're the CTA and CPO definitions from the NFA:
___________
A CTA is an individual or organization which, for compensation or profit, advises others as to the value of or the advisability of buying or selling futures contracts or commodity options.
A CPO is an individual or organization which operates or solicits funds for a commodity pool; that is, an enterprise in which funds contributed by a number of persons are combined for the purpose of trading futures contracts or commodity options, or to invest in another commodity pool.
___________
A CTA basically either publishes trading signals with something like a newletter or chatroom, or else has power of attorney to actuallly make trades in a client's account for them. A CTA never takes posession of your money -- if a CTA trades your account _you_ will still be the owner of that account.
A CPO collects investor funds and pools them together into a single brokerage account owned by the pool (and then the pool is, in turn, owned by the investors). The pool is typically a limited partnership.
A futures pool is more commonly called a "managed futures fund" and some people include managed futures funds as a category of hedge funds.
An advantage to investing in a pool/fund is that they usually have lower minimums and you can't lose more than your initial investment. On the other hand, an advantage to having a CTA trade your separate account is the safety of maintaining custody of your assets -- you have to initiate or sign off on any withdrawals. Schindler Trading manages both separately managed accounts and a fund, so we are registered as both a CTA and CPO.
That says according to NFA, CTAs are basically for MAs. In other words, CTAs would keep lesser secrets to their clients.
Quote from Slave2Market:
Hey,
as I stated earlier ... I'd be damn happy with a 15% annual return with no monthly drawdowns - can anyone do it? I might even allow a 1% monthly drawdown, but this should not occur more than 1 month in a 12 month period.
It's hard to believe, but there was actually a time when the 30 year T-Bond was yielding 15%!
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=^TYX&t=my
Regards,
Slave2Market
I believe there are a few who have records like this. If you are really interested, I can give you some names.
sussex,
In the meantime, did you find the guy that you are going to trust your $700,000 to?
In the meantime, did you find the guy that you are going to trust your $700,000 to?
Quote from Mike805:
8% per month... 25% incentive?
You're dreaming.
I'm still laughing at the possibilty of someone who can produce greater than 8%/month return and only take 25%. Why on earth would they want to manage OPM?
I know of a forex trader who uses automated systems.
He would be happy to use a back-burner system, expecting 40~50% yearly returns with around 5% MaxDD when using 5:1 leverage, for an OPM program charging 3%/30%.
How that sounds?
Not sure if his plan is for real.