Baron
ET Founder
1200 is at the top of the range for a young adult male, and in the words of my doctor.... "The whole point of HRT is that we're trying to get your levels up to the top of the range that you were at when you were in your 20's."
Anyone here using Testosterone Replacement?
- Thread starter NY_HOOD
- Start date
1200 is at the top of the range for a young adult male, and in the words of my doctor.... "The whole point of HRT is that we're trying to get your levels up to the top of the range that you were at when you were in your 20's."
Baron
ET Founder
My doctor initially put me on 500iu of HCG EOD to boost my Testosterone levels. The problem with using HCG solely for that purpose is although it got my Test levels up, it sent my estrogen level through the roof.
Then he put me on Arimidex to combat the estrogen, but that stuff was like $140 for 10 pills or something like that which is ridiculous IMO. So I eventually dumped that doctor because some of my other doctor friends told me the HCG only protocol was pretty outdated (and my doctor was about to retire so it all made sense).
Agree, hcg is not a vaiable long term option for T replacemen as it sends estrogen too high. The last thing u want to do is take another drug to combat the effects of another, it can be a viscious cycle. Testosterone is naurally ocurring. Small dosages of hcg every other week the beat way to combat atrophy in my opinion.
Last time I read on the topic was over 6months ago but thought clomid/hcg bitherapy was still used as an alternative to test injection. Wondering how you gave up TRT Ny Hood, it seems to be a hard and most often losing battle.
If You guys can manage Estrogen levels without extra medicine through injectable test trt it s definetely a plus. Besides the Cost and the possible side effects it is a hassle to find the right dosage. My E2 were too high on the last blood test and now I increased Aromasin dosages, it feels like it is too low.Fwiw Aromasin is usually more expensive than arimidex but is supposed to be more igf friendly (It's cheap in Mainland China but not quite as easy to get as in HK). Besides NY-HOOD a couple of blood tests here confirm What you said about Hcg and clomid effects on LH, but an important point is it doesn t seem to wreak havoc on HPTA and the treatment can be discontinued easily ( i will check first hand over Xmas holidays)
Baron Did u start TRT because your test levels were below the minimum of the normal range or Just because You wanted the be on higher level while still within normal range? The second option seems to work with TRT clinics in the US but that Isn't the case everywhere. some stories of people Looking to get on TRT Are painful to read.
If You guys can manage Estrogen levels without extra medicine through injectable test trt it s definetely a plus. Besides the Cost and the possible side effects it is a hassle to find the right dosage. My E2 were too high on the last blood test and now I increased Aromasin dosages, it feels like it is too low.Fwiw Aromasin is usually more expensive than arimidex but is supposed to be more igf friendly (It's cheap in Mainland China but not quite as easy to get as in HK). Besides NY-HOOD a couple of blood tests here confirm What you said about Hcg and clomid effects on LH, but an important point is it doesn t seem to wreak havoc on HPTA and the treatment can be discontinued easily ( i will check first hand over Xmas holidays)
Baron Did u start TRT because your test levels were below the minimum of the normal range or Just because You wanted the be on higher level while still within normal range? The second option seems to work with TRT clinics in the US but that Isn't the case everywhere. some stories of people Looking to get on TRT Are painful to read.
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Baron
ET Founder
I felt like I my diet was decent and my exercise program was pretty good but I just wasn't getting anywhere in terms of progress. So I went in to have my levels checked out of curiosity and discovered the following:
- My test levels were about average for someone my age.
- My IGF-1 level was on the low end of the range.
- My thyroid level was on the low end of the range.
@Baron
next time you see your doctor perhaps ask him whether he checked these levels for his own system and if not why not??
and if he did - did he want to bring it to 'proper' numbers' and if not, why not??
then perhaps you'll find out that they are not so quck to tinker with their own bodies
the norm is a statistical term and we are all different..god only knows what is the norm for an individual and there is always price to be paid..
regards
next time you see your doctor perhaps ask him whether he checked these levels for his own system and if not why not??
and if he did - did he want to bring it to 'proper' numbers' and if not, why not??
then perhaps you'll find out that they are not so quck to tinker with their own bodies
the norm is a statistical term and we are all different..god only knows what is the norm for an individual and there is always price to be paid..regards
I'm investigating TRT myself. My total testosterone numbers are ok...perhaps on the higher side of the range for my age (forties)....but my free testosterone level is right at the low end of the range. This appears to be from very high levels of SHBG. The level is almost twice the upper end of the acceptable range.
If anyone knows how to reduce SHBG please post. I would rather not go anywhere near TRT if possible. A friend is on it and injects himself with the drugs regularly..seems absolutely horrific.
If anyone knows how to reduce SHBG please post. I would rather not go anywhere near TRT if possible. A friend is on it and injects himself with the drugs regularly..seems absolutely horrific.
Worth looking up on the net about SHBG, Proviron from reading a bit on the topic can help to increase free T while at a dose low enough doesn't seem to shut off HPTA, the hospital where I go can't check for free T, unfortunate, it sure looks like a useful info, standard in Testosterone levels checks in the West.
It might be a bit scary if you have never injected yourself before but it quickly becomes a non event, especially if you can do it subcutaneously (possible with frequent injection, like when doing TRT with Test propionate). Proviron is an oral drug.
In another thread Baron said he felt little value added from TRT toward his work out and results, but hints clearly differently here. I can only confirm, going from 400 to 875 total test, not only I get new chest hair and morning wood reminiscent of younger times, but it seems easier to pack on muscle and strength and shed fat. Strength nowhere near when I was 30, but slightly better than at the beginning of this year, although coming back from a 4 months sciatica break. About fat loss, to be fair, I'm also using HGH, without the intention to ever stop it if possible, which must help quite a bit, not sure I was slimmer 15 years back, although i'm not crazy about diet nor cardio. Still try to eat clean and swim a couple of times a week.
Fwiw opinions on the net from long term TRT users are mixed, several advise against it if one natural test levels aren't overly depressed, others are all "Go for it". Steroids users are particularly keen to jump on it as it spares them a dreaded PCT, but it doesn't look like a fun time (major euphemism) when they change their mind and try to get off it.
One can apparently order Test prop in Mainland China freely from Taobao, or buy other testosterone esters OTC in HK, I've still refrained from doing it but not sure for how much longer...
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Baron
ET Founder
I will clarify my position. For me these days, TRT is the difference between weighing 178 without it and 184 with it. So there's about a six-pound difference, which is probably a mixture of muscle and water retention. So there are positive results for sure, but from a strict bodybuilding standpoint, I wouldn't call those results dramatic by any means. But the effects that ARE somewhat dramatic in my opinion are the consistent morning wood, increased sex drive, stronger orgasms and the ability to eat more food without putting on fat. And those are the effects that make TRT desirable over the long term. Now you might say "I already experience all that anyway without TRT." and my response would be that TRT shouldn't be something for you to consider. It's really for when that point in life comes when you start feeling like you're just not the man you used to be no matter how hard you try. It's when you get to that point where you're doing all the right things but you're body just isn't responding like it used to.
Let me take a step back for a second for those that don't fully understand the importance of hormone replacement as you get older. As a person ages, their hormone levels naturally decrease year after year. That's why hormone levels are generally measured in terms of how they compare to an average person that's your age, not to someone a lot younger than you. So to combat the natural aging process, we boost our hormones up to get back to the levels we were at when we were much younger.
Ok, so why is that really important?
To fully understand the answer requires that you first understand the role of hormones to begin with:
Simply put, hormones are the signals that tell our bodies what to do with food. They are the messengers that instruct our bodies to do things like synthesize protein into muscle, make bones stronger, store fat, burn fat, increase collagen production, control sex drive, regulate metabolism, etc.
So what we are trying to accomplish is boosting hormones like Testosterone , Growth Hormone and Thyroid Hormones that have positive effects like creating new muscle and increasing food metabolism, while lowering or controlling the levels of hormones such as estrogen and insulin that send undesirable signals to your body like lowering libido and storing fat. And unfortunately, if we just let mother nature have her way, the average male's testosterone will drop over time and his estrogen level will rise, which is the opposite of what we want.
In addition to your hormonal profile getting worse over time naturally, it can further get screwed up by various medications. If you've ever taken a medication before and noticed instant weight gain out of nowhere, it's because the side effect of that medication was that it caused an undesirable change in your hormone levels.
So to summarize, optimizing your hormones are essential for weight management and body composition as you get older. Some of them.... insulin for example, can be manipulated simply by controlling our diet through lower carb consumption. Other hormones like Testosterone and Growth Hormone need to be injected or absorbed through the skin because we can't get them to significantly higher levels any other way, hence the necessity for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). So at the end of the day, the goal of HRT is to get our hormones up to levels that allow our bodies to respond to food intake like when we were younger, meaning that you maintain your muscle easier, resist the storage of body fat, and achieve a greater sense of youth and well being.