Anyone ever try to explain their trading career choice to family?
- Thread starter fatrat
- Start date
The best thing i ever did was let people come watch me trade, people would always ask me if they could come watch after they learned what i do for a living. I finally started to let people and if you have a business plan and follow a method it is easy for people to see that what your doing is controlled and that there is actually some reason that you are making the decisions that you are.
When you tell people that you are daytrading all they think about is the pictures of guys in the pit yelling and screaming. They have a mental picture of it being complete chaos. So they think that you are just pure guessing or jumping in off what you see on CNBC or something.
I've had people come and watch me lose for a day and walk away saying i can tell how you can make a living doing this now because they see me executing a plan and being very disciplined and in control.
To tell you the truth i've never had one person come to my office to watch me that hasn't either asked me if they could come trade with me, ask if i would manage money for them, or say that they wish they could and would love to do this.
Pierson
When you tell people that you are daytrading all they think about is the pictures of guys in the pit yelling and screaming. They have a mental picture of it being complete chaos. So they think that you are just pure guessing or jumping in off what you see on CNBC or something.
I've had people come and watch me lose for a day and walk away saying i can tell how you can make a living doing this now because they see me executing a plan and being very disciplined and in control.
To tell you the truth i've never had one person come to my office to watch me that hasn't either asked me if they could come trade with me, ask if i would manage money for them, or say that they wish they could and would love to do this.
Pierson
Heh, when people come to my office, they are bored out of their skulls. Since I run a set of automated trading systems, there is really nothing to see except a few tiled information windows (P&L, exposure, positions, etc) that flashes, one big centralized risk window that I manage (sort of) and a few large white boards full of equations (usually some stochastic model, yep, still there). They are usually bored to tears and start making lunch plans in 10 - 15 mins.
A large overlooked factor in this discussion is the risk you take by doing the "expected thing" of getting some job in a "normal career", working your way up, etc. One risk is that your "career" position may be eliminated, outsourced, laid off due to market changes, become a lot less lucrative, and the reward for loyalty in today's corporate world is a big kick in the behind. Another risk is after you get married, your wife gets used to totally predictable income, and now you get resistance from her if you try to branch out later and do a career change or start a business, because it's "too risky".
Then when you get to be 45-55, a lot of times you are "kicked to the curb" by a company (or sometimes a spouse = divorce) just when you are in position to really make some dough and really get ahead financially, but also when your kids will be going to college (expensive!!). As a result, you could be constrained to work at some unrewarding mediocre position due to previous entanglements ( mortgage, kids college, need to develop retirement savings, etc. ).
You should develop multiple sources of income, regardless of whether you trade or not. Swing trading (or even investing) is usually one good source of income if done correctly. Real estate can be another, although that is looking frothy in many markets so the timing may not be ideal for that right now.
I would pursue trading, but keep my other avenues open to diversify your finances in case you have a bad trading year, get married and need some predictability, need good health insurance and don't want to pay $1000/month or more for it, etc.
In other words, use the "normal job" to even out the swings of trading, and add some other benefits. Maybe even a part-time job, or something that provides a sense of security. You will definitely trade better if you are not having to take withdrawals from your trading capital every month.
Then when you get to be 45-55, a lot of times you are "kicked to the curb" by a company (or sometimes a spouse = divorce) just when you are in position to really make some dough and really get ahead financially, but also when your kids will be going to college (expensive!!). As a result, you could be constrained to work at some unrewarding mediocre position due to previous entanglements ( mortgage, kids college, need to develop retirement savings, etc. ).
You should develop multiple sources of income, regardless of whether you trade or not. Swing trading (or even investing) is usually one good source of income if done correctly. Real estate can be another, although that is looking frothy in many markets so the timing may not be ideal for that right now.
I would pursue trading, but keep my other avenues open to diversify your finances in case you have a bad trading year, get married and need some predictability, need good health insurance and don't want to pay $1000/month or more for it, etc.
In other words, use the "normal job" to even out the swings of trading, and add some other benefits. Maybe even a part-time job, or something that provides a sense of security. You will definitely trade better if you are not having to take withdrawals from your trading capital every month.
To play devil's advocate:
There are advantages to working for a corporation:
1. guaranteed paycheck
2. health insurance
3. socialization
4. travel
5. upward mobility
Now, if you were a loser, poor student, unmotivated, etc, the job you have sucks for a reason. If you're turning to trading because you weren't successful in the past, or are too lazy to work a "real job" you'll probably be a losing trader.
Welcome though, more money for my spec account.
There are advantages to working for a corporation:
1. guaranteed paycheck
2. health insurance
3. socialization
4. travel
5. upward mobility
Now, if you were a loser, poor student, unmotivated, etc, the job you have sucks for a reason. If you're turning to trading because you weren't successful in the past, or are too lazy to work a "real job" you'll probably be a losing trader.
Welcome though, more money for my spec account.
1. guaranteed paycheck - until your job is eliminated
2. health insurance - i got my own cheaper than the what the HR department picked for me
3. socialization - I have my own friends - the people at the office are not them
4. travel - I have other things to do than see the inside of airports, hotels and meeting rooms
5. upward mobility - to a job that sucks worse than the one I started with
2. health insurance - i got my own cheaper than the what the HR department picked for me
3. socialization - I have my own friends - the people at the office are not them
4. travel - I have other things to do than see the inside of airports, hotels and meeting rooms
5. upward mobility - to a job that sucks worse than the one I started with
Well...
This really sounds like my scenario... and reading this thread has really made me feel a whole lot better. We should start some sort fo trader support group... like traders anonymous...
I'll be like "hi Im Pablo and I haven't punch in to work in six months" and then I get a poker chip for that and we all have some coffee and a cigarrette... nice
Now seriously. I didn't get much support from my family when I decided to go into trading... not even from my uncle who happens to be a rich lawyer/real state investor... his thinking was 'how can you quit a job where you have a warrantied income for something that may or may not get you more money?'
I still dont get much support. Even though I have been profitable, whenever i hit a slump I know I got pressure coming my way... the bad part is that the harder i feel the pressure the harder it gets to beat the slump.
Good thing is... since Im trading at a firm, they assume losses.. bad thing is they also take most profits... but hey I aint got any money so if I was trading on my capital my profits would be = 0. So I'm getting much heat at my place when after being profitable one month [my sixth month, took in a 500$ check... 10% of 5000$] I go in a slump and I cant pay y tuition... not good though i really dont care, I'll go back to school in january...
I mean; I was always a C student in most classes, not because I couldn't do better but simply because I couldn't care less. In a couple of classes, like microeconomics 2, logics and algorythms, advance calculus applied to economics... I got an A because they where fun...
On the good side now I'll be able to focus my assigments toward stuff that makes me care, so I'll probablly do a lot better... Plus I have a perfectly flexible schedule now, no 3-11 or 6-3 bullsht...
I used to work as a manager for a racebook [taking bets on horse races] where I'll pretty much sit back and watch computers do their job [aka, watch tv, chat and read internet forums for a paycheck]... and I got enough out of it to cover myexpenses... but it wasn't challenging, it was driving me crazy, to have to vegetate for 8 - 10 hours in a row every day.
I need something that stimulates me, that involves adrenaline, I need something challenging. The kind of job that I won't get because of how well I fit into the educational system but because of how good I'm at it.
The kind of job where I'm not simply a replaceable asset at a corporation. I'm the guy who's making money out of the corporation going chapter 11.
I need the kind of job that they can't teach in college. I need to do something that I love doing. I need to trade.
I somehow knew that years before I got the chance to trade... when I switched out of computer engenieering I wanted to work with stock market, on very short timeframes... I didnt even know what it was called but I wanted to daytrade so I took a mayor in economics and a second mayor in finances to put myself on the right path... and well when I saw the chance to work for a prop firm [the first prop firm ever to open in costa rica] I jumped on it, I started the same day the company did... we didn't even had chairs the first couple of days... I covered my expenses for the next six months and told the guys at the book to shove the job up their...
So my family was quite doubfull about this job where I wasnt making any money, I couldn't say that anyone else was making money [ I was the advance class]... and I couldn't guarranty that I'll make any money in the near future. I only knew that I was going to be a part of that 5 percent that make it.
Why? cause I belive that if you do something everyday 7 1/2 hours a day... eventually you become very good at it, and I also believe that my life isn't a simple coincidence.
I'm a man of faith, and I belive that every event in my life serves a pourpose, because there's someone behind those events an arquitect, God [aka Jesus]. Do I belive that God is going to make me a great trader, not likely. Do i belive that God has given me what it takes to excell at what I do, yes. Do I belive that it was God that put me in this path years before I had the chance to trade for the first time, yes. So I believe that Im going to be around this bussiness for a while, no matter how unlikely that may seem today.
[sorry about the long threat guys, just felt like writting all my feelings into a single string of though... perhaps they'll help someone feel better about their current situation as a trader, just like reading all the previous posts helped me...]
This really sounds like my scenario... and reading this thread has really made me feel a whole lot better. We should start some sort fo trader support group... like traders anonymous...
I'll be like "hi Im Pablo and I haven't punch in to work in six months" and then I get a poker chip for that and we all have some coffee and a cigarrette... nice
Now seriously. I didn't get much support from my family when I decided to go into trading... not even from my uncle who happens to be a rich lawyer/real state investor... his thinking was 'how can you quit a job where you have a warrantied income for something that may or may not get you more money?'
I still dont get much support. Even though I have been profitable, whenever i hit a slump I know I got pressure coming my way... the bad part is that the harder i feel the pressure the harder it gets to beat the slump.
Good thing is... since Im trading at a firm, they assume losses.. bad thing is they also take most profits... but hey I aint got any money so if I was trading on my capital my profits would be = 0. So I'm getting much heat at my place when after being profitable one month [my sixth month, took in a 500$ check... 10% of 5000$] I go in a slump and I cant pay y tuition... not good though i really dont care, I'll go back to school in january...
I mean; I was always a C student in most classes, not because I couldn't do better but simply because I couldn't care less. In a couple of classes, like microeconomics 2, logics and algorythms, advance calculus applied to economics... I got an A because they where fun...
On the good side now I'll be able to focus my assigments toward stuff that makes me care, so I'll probablly do a lot better... Plus I have a perfectly flexible schedule now, no 3-11 or 6-3 bullsht...
I used to work as a manager for a racebook [taking bets on horse races] where I'll pretty much sit back and watch computers do their job [aka, watch tv, chat and read internet forums for a paycheck]... and I got enough out of it to cover myexpenses... but it wasn't challenging, it was driving me crazy, to have to vegetate for 8 - 10 hours in a row every day.
I need something that stimulates me, that involves adrenaline, I need something challenging. The kind of job that I won't get because of how well I fit into the educational system but because of how good I'm at it.
The kind of job where I'm not simply a replaceable asset at a corporation. I'm the guy who's making money out of the corporation going chapter 11.
I need the kind of job that they can't teach in college. I need to do something that I love doing. I need to trade.
I somehow knew that years before I got the chance to trade... when I switched out of computer engenieering I wanted to work with stock market, on very short timeframes... I didnt even know what it was called but I wanted to daytrade so I took a mayor in economics and a second mayor in finances to put myself on the right path... and well when I saw the chance to work for a prop firm [the first prop firm ever to open in costa rica] I jumped on it, I started the same day the company did... we didn't even had chairs the first couple of days... I covered my expenses for the next six months and told the guys at the book to shove the job up their...
So my family was quite doubfull about this job where I wasnt making any money, I couldn't say that anyone else was making money [ I was the advance class]... and I couldn't guarranty that I'll make any money in the near future. I only knew that I was going to be a part of that 5 percent that make it.
Why? cause I belive that if you do something everyday 7 1/2 hours a day... eventually you become very good at it, and I also believe that my life isn't a simple coincidence.
I'm a man of faith, and I belive that every event in my life serves a pourpose, because there's someone behind those events an arquitect, God [aka Jesus]. Do I belive that God is going to make me a great trader, not likely. Do i belive that God has given me what it takes to excell at what I do, yes. Do I belive that it was God that put me in this path years before I had the chance to trade for the first time, yes. So I believe that Im going to be around this bussiness for a while, no matter how unlikely that may seem today.
[sorry about the long threat guys, just felt like writting all my feelings into a single string of though... perhaps they'll help someone feel better about their current situation as a trader, just like reading all the previous posts helped me...]