Anyone doing Collective2 ??

[Pekelo]

Do they share the losses if the trades do not workout?

If they are TOS (Trades Own System) certified then yes, they have a skin in the game...

 

[WeToddDid2]

OK, bickering aside, let's treat OP's question as a legit one. I have made money on C2 as a vendor a few years back. It is a rather laid back experience (meaning C2 does most of the work for you) and as long as you are not scalping but swing trading, your subscribers' real life fills are going to be similar than yours.

Once I stopped my system because I was going for 3-4 ES ticks and my subscribers were getting half or less of that. Thus it wasn't profitable for them, even if it looked profitable on paper while no subscribers were there. That is just the nature of the set up, so as long as you know the delay and its effect and your system can handle it, this shouldn't be a problem.

The best are the seldom trading systems that hold for days if not for hours. There is a thread here that recommends/criticizes systems and the one I liked most were all trading only a couple of times a month. When you trade that few times, a few ticks differences between subscribers and vendor doesn't matter.

Nowadays it is best not to set free trials, because people are trying to game the system. Some subscribers can be a pain in the neck, and wants to know everything before they sign up. That can be a little bit annoying, but understandable. A good open PR approach can go a long way at getting subscribers.

There is a psychological danger for vendors though. If you are not trading your own money (or trading it differently) it is easy to get detached from reality and realizing that there could be quite a decent amount of capital behind your trades, even if it is just a sim for you. That is when vendors start to average down or moving stop loss orders and eventually blow up. Generally it is better if as a vendor you also trade your own money thus you feel their pain. Write a good description of your system, don't average down, use stop losses, and stick to the rules. <<<<< If these rules were followed by vendors there would be no blown systems on C2...

When people ask, if you can trade profitably why would you sell your system? I always ask back, why not, as long as it doesn't effect your fills or psychology? This is extra money after all, and don't you like more money? In a month when you are flat, subscribers' fees still pay the bills...

So if you are a swing trader of a trading vehicle that has enough volume for others (not like a low volume option trader, for example) there is no reason not to give C2 a try. Treat subscribers' money with respect as it was yours, and if after a few months you decide dealing with people is not for you, hey, at least you gave it a try...

Thanks for the post. I have considered doing it previously however it is hard to determine if it is worth it. Do you know of any source that illustrates how much money a vendor can make? C2 keeps it pretty opaque with respect to how many total paying subscribers there are and how many subs per system.

 

[Pekelo]

Do you know of any source that illustrates how much money a vendor can make?

There is a thread on the C2 Forums that kind of deals with this:

https://forums.collective2.com/t/qu...evelopers-strategies-just-a-question/10014/24

Quotes from the thread:

"A number of years ago, there was a forex trader who claimed to have over 200 subscribers,"

"I had a friend on here who had over 50 subs (63 at its peak, I believe) at one time (on a system charging $200 per month)."

There are certain ways to try to guess. For example if a system doesn't have free trials, you could see the recent subscribers (up to the last 2 weeks, I think), so that is just simple math and if you keep going back and checking (running a tab), you will have a rough idea how many paying subscribers it has.

For example the system Simplicity had 15 new subscribers in the last 2 weeks paying $100 each, so after taking C2's 30%, it made 1K in 2 weeks just out of new subscribers...Of course we don't know how many will stick around, but that 1K is money in the bank...

Another way is to see the number of real money trades the system executed. Again, a simple math gives you an idea although some subscribers might trade the system manually and that wouldn't show up this way.

Occasionally C2 throws out some data for PR purposes and if I recall one system made 6 figures just out of fees. That is called making a living trading a sim...

 

[Jdesey]

Thank you Pakelo...I will ask C2 as well, but what is the legal liability if a subscriber blows up? also, how long were yo on it and what was your max number of subscribers? oh, and if I am day trading and trades go anywhere from 9 minutes to 90 minutes,,, is that gonna work for subscribers?

 

[Pekelo]

1. but what is the legal liability if a subscriber blows up?
2. also, how long were yo on it and what was your max number of subscribers?
3. if I am day trading and trades go anywhere from 9 minutes to 90 minutes,,, is that gonna work for subscribers?

1. Technically and legally nothing, but practically anybody can be sued for anything. It is actually an interesting question, let's say a vendor breaks his own posted rules and wipes out an account. I haven't heard any case involving this, but C2 has a bunch of disclaimers, so although not impossible, but very unlikely such a case could be won against a vendor. Also, C2 is global so prosecution of a Russian or Chinese vendor could be problematic.

2. I think I was a vendor 3 different times in the last 10 years (I was one of the first users), and maybe 15 was the max. subscribers but it was fluctuating wildly. Last time I had phantom subscribers, using the free trial but always unsubscribing when the trial ran out. Then subscribing again under a different name. Never figured out if they made money or not, because if they did, wouldn't they just pay a reasonable fee? And if they didn't, why are they subscribing again? That is why some vendors are against free trials...

3. You could post a question on C2, "What do subscribers want?" There is really a wide variety of needs so it is hard to generalize. If I have to, they want less and longer trades, small DDs, no averaging down, less trading instruments, easy to scale up or down, decent but continuous returns are probably more important than flash in the pan gazillion%, no big fluctuation in used contract/stock numbers. etc.... Basically, they want predictability...