Anybody making any real $$$???

don,
Timber Hill's/IB's statements have been made public. The trading system is automated. (The firm was recentlly ranked the 31st largest securities company in the US by institutional investor with about 1 billion in capital). Given your previous post, I'm just stating this just to make a point that it can be done. My above statement is backed up by an S&P rating: http://www.interactivebrokers.com/download/sp_rating.pdf

I know of a few other fully automated/mechanical trading systems that do well. The key to all of these is that they require significant capital (intellectual and financial) to build and maintain.
 
I think that most traders who are having a hard time think that "the market" is impossible. Unfortunatly for them, the more they believe that, the more true it becomes. I think that as a trader its important to keep a positive mental aspect, because with out confidence that you can do it, that it can be done, no edge you have means anything because you wont be able to stomach the inevitable losing periods. I remember in 1999 and early 2000 (The good old days we all long for :) even then, probably 75% of the people were not making money, and compalined about what an "impossible" market we are in.

Brandon
 
Originally posted by def
don,
Timber Hill's/IB's statements have been made public. The trading system is automated. (The firm was recentlly ranked the 31st largest securities company in the US by institutional investor with about 1 billion in capital). Given your previous post, I'm just stating this just to make a point that it can be done. My above statement is backed up by an S&P rating: http://www.interactivebrokers.com/download/sp_rating.pdf

I know of a few other fully automated/mechanical trading systems that do well. The key to all of these is that they require significant capital (intellectual and financial) to build and maintain.
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I have a friend over at IB, and I am seriously interested in this...can you give me more specifics on it? Timber Hill has alwyas been a strong player on the Street, along with Hull Trading, and a few others....but I have not actually seen a fully automated program.

I know they have traders in virtually every trading pit, trading virtually every product, and are connected via a network..and do incredible things (hedging, etc.) in lightning speed....but this is not fully automated (pretty close).

This is one reason why we don't suggest futures trading or options trading off the trading floor (just too much to contend with....don't you futures guys start yelling at me, I'm not saying you can't make money, just that it is pretty tough).

Anyway, I would like to know more about full automation.
 
Originally posted by Don Bright

Anyway, I would like to know more about full automation.
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I bet you would! Actually so would I :D IB made more than $500 million in 2000 largely from their system trading. That's one sweet black box.
 
To post my meager results for this "informal survey", I have not made didley in 8 months, and I watch numerous other traders who have years of experience, and who have made a great deal of money in the past, struggle (most are around flat or losing money) this year. Indeed, many have quit daytrading or are on the verge of leaving, as I see many traders setting up or attending interviews so that they can move on. These traders, with years of experience, including many who still did fairly well as recently as 2001, recognize that the trading environment is only going to get worse for daytrading (this includes the endless stream of us Johnny come lately competition, market direction/conviction, market volume, etc etc). In other words, these traders see the writing on the wall.

As one person's post pointed out, evev in '98-'99, the dream years, many traders failed, and yet that was back when there was far less competition and an "irrational exuberance" that won't be seen again for decades. There are people making money now, although they are small in %, and the % making $100,000 is incredibly small I believe (I am one of the traders making not even McDonald's wages, and yet things keep getting tougher as I see it, not better). I myself am regretting becoming a prop trader, and I would not recommend it to anyone (except my worst enemies, although with my luck they'd end up in the ultra-tiny % of semi-successful traders). However, for those who choose to enter this profession, I wish you very good luck!
 
Originally posted by I Missed Boat
To post my meager results for this "informal survey", I have not made didley in 8 months, and I watch numerous other traders who have years of experience, and who have made a great deal of money in the past, struggle (most are around flat or losing money) this year. Indeed, many have quit daytrading or are on the verge of leaving, as I see many traders setting up or attending interviews so that they can move on. These traders, with years of experience, including many who still did fairly well as recently as 2001, recognize that the trading environment is only going to get worse for daytrading (this includes the endless stream of us Johnny come lately competition, market direction/conviction, market volume, etc etc). In other words, these traders see the writing on the wall.

As one person's post pointed out, evev in '98-'99, the dream years, many traders failed, and yet that was back when there was far less competition and an "irrational exuberance" that won't be seen again for decades. There are people making money now, although they are small in %, and the % making $100,000 is incredibly small I believe (I am one of the traders making not even McDonald's wages, and yet things keep getting tougher as I see it, not better). I myself am regretting becoming a prop trader, and I would not recommend it to anyone (except my worst enemies, although with my luck they'd end up in the ultra-tiny % of semi-successful traders). However, for those who choose to enter this profession, I wish you very good luck!
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"I can't tell you how it came to take me so many years to learn that instead of placing piking bets on what the next few quotations were going to be, my game was to anticipate what was going to happen in a big way."

Jesse Livermore
 
I think you have about the same chance of becoming a succesfull trader as a high school athlete has of making the big leagues. How could it be otherwise? I am grateful it is so hard. I really dont think it has much to do with the state of the market. So many are failing because so many more are trying.
 
how difficult is it to trade really?


as our esteemed brother candle has so often beseeched us...

'trade with the trend and let probability sort out your P&L.'



is that so difficult for you? :-/
 
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