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Any work for a recent college grad?
- Thread starter jond83
- Start date
Grob 109..
I was hoping around $10,000. I already have $4,000. ( after losing $8,000 learning how to trade.) I am pretty consistent however my emotions are still too attached because of such small capital. I would have greater flexibility in money management and risk tolerance techniques with more capital, obviously.
If your serious email me privately - Jond@udel.edu and i will send you my whole excel workbook. (P/L, equity curve, etc.)
I was hoping around $10,000. I already have $4,000. ( after losing $8,000 learning how to trade.) I am pretty consistent however my emotions are still too attached because of such small capital. I would have greater flexibility in money management and risk tolerance techniques with more capital, obviously.
If your serious email me privately - Jond@udel.edu and i will send you my whole excel workbook. (P/L, equity curve, etc.)
Let me put it this way, you're hardly humble - you're arrogant.
Most major firms routinely assume that the training of a top level trader will cost the firm $500k-$1mm in expenses, losses etc. Thats why top firms pay traders so well - hiring new guys to fill old shoes is very expensive. Saying you lost $8Gs learning how to trade is preposterous.
But if you're right, and you know how to trade, shouldnt your focus be solely on trading your capital and running it up to a million bucks?
Most major firms routinely assume that the training of a top level trader will cost the firm $500k-$1mm in expenses, losses etc. Thats why top firms pay traders so well - hiring new guys to fill old shoes is very expensive. Saying you lost $8Gs learning how to trade is preposterous.
But if you're right, and you know how to trade, shouldnt your focus be solely on trading your capital and running it up to a million bucks?
I was wondering if anyone on this site new of any openings as an assistant trader or something similar. I just graduated U. of Delaware with a major in Finance and minor in Economics with a GPA of 3.3. I have been trading my own account for three years and have experienced some success but would like direction under a professional.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
That was my original post tomcole. Maybe I'm blind, but what was so arrogant about that???
And I am not getting into a "website fight" with you, but what i meant by losing 8,000 to learn how to trade is that every professional trader will tell you they lost money before they became a professional. You learn through the school of hard knocks. I am admitting that I would like guidance from a professional, not that I am a professional. In addition, I am not trying to be a head trader for a firm running them 1MM in expenses. I simply would love advice from a professional trader, whether it be from a prop firm, or as a trader's assistant.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
That was my original post tomcole. Maybe I'm blind, but what was so arrogant about that???
And I am not getting into a "website fight" with you, but what i meant by losing 8,000 to learn how to trade is that every professional trader will tell you they lost money before they became a professional. You learn through the school of hard knocks. I am admitting that I would like guidance from a professional, not that I am a professional. In addition, I am not trying to be a head trader for a firm running them 1MM in expenses. I simply would love advice from a professional trader, whether it be from a prop firm, or as a trader's assistant.
jond83, I understand that you are getting a bit of a hard time here and I personally do think you are just trying to get some friendly advice so here's my 2c worth. Perhaps it may save you anymore grief, which is exactly what you will get from most people on here who all seem quite protective/proud of the fact that they broke their way into trading, whether they are truly any good or not.
1) You ARE NOT special in an employer's eyes when it comes to scoring a job as a trader. In order to get into a top firm on academic terms, you genuinely need to be the best of the very best to be listened to. It is good that you are clearly able to absorb academic information but these guys know that it truly amounts to jack-shit in terms of determining the probablilty of how good you may be as a trader.
2) I think it is to your credit that you have traded enough to have lost that much money (as long as you didn't do it in a short period of time) as you MUST have learned something from it. Try and sell his experience as a teething stage and explain your methods and what you have picked up on a personal front (discipline, entry/exit rules, data usage etc.) when you do get an interview..... which you will if you really want to.
3) KEEP IN CONTACT WITH EVERYONE YOU KNOW FROM COLLEGE, SCHOOL, SPORTS ETC. As someone else said, it is all about contacts. I'm sure you are like most people in that you are thinking "All I need is a shot, I know I can do it so just give me a chance". Problem is, everyone believes that about themselves so you are no different from the million others who are after a limited number of roles. What WILL make you stand out enough to get aninterview is if you have an acquaintance who can do the job who believes you can too. I don't know about the rest of the guys here but if I were employing someone for a role and I had the resume of an Ivy League academic hotshot who knows how to read a book Vs a sound looking guy that one of my best traders says he thinks has the right attitude/beliefs to be a good trader, I'd bin the Ivy League resume. It may not be fair but it is how the world works and, being honest, it's an employment method that probably works the majority of the time.
4) READ SOME GOOD BOOKS THAT AREN'T ABOUT TECHNICAL ANALYSIS BUT ABOUT WHAT IT TRULY TAKES TO BE A TRADER- MARKET WIZARDS (ORIGINAL PRINT) FOR A START. You can learn technical analysis all you want but it is the attitude/approach that will eventually determine your success and longevity. If you lost money in the past, your self management and money management may have been a bit screwed. Learn the most expensive lessons from others- everybody who has made it knows how to limit the size of losers and a technical analsis book wont help you with the reality of it all.
I hope this is of some use and you get an interview somewhere as I was in a somewhat similar situation a few years ago. I started in the back office for Merrill Lynch for a couple of years and I just got so f***ked off I made a break and wouldn't give up until someone gave me a job. Now it is all going well trading wise (shouldn't tempt fate like that!) so as far as I am concerned, if you really want it, it is up to you to go and get it. If you truly believe in yourself, ignore the knockbacks but keep learning/adapting. Don't expect any free help getting an interview or an easy ride when you start. If this game were that easy, everyone would be trading and making a million.
All the best
1) You ARE NOT special in an employer's eyes when it comes to scoring a job as a trader. In order to get into a top firm on academic terms, you genuinely need to be the best of the very best to be listened to. It is good that you are clearly able to absorb academic information but these guys know that it truly amounts to jack-shit in terms of determining the probablilty of how good you may be as a trader.
2) I think it is to your credit that you have traded enough to have lost that much money (as long as you didn't do it in a short period of time) as you MUST have learned something from it. Try and sell his experience as a teething stage and explain your methods and what you have picked up on a personal front (discipline, entry/exit rules, data usage etc.) when you do get an interview..... which you will if you really want to.
3) KEEP IN CONTACT WITH EVERYONE YOU KNOW FROM COLLEGE, SCHOOL, SPORTS ETC. As someone else said, it is all about contacts. I'm sure you are like most people in that you are thinking "All I need is a shot, I know I can do it so just give me a chance". Problem is, everyone believes that about themselves so you are no different from the million others who are after a limited number of roles. What WILL make you stand out enough to get aninterview is if you have an acquaintance who can do the job who believes you can too. I don't know about the rest of the guys here but if I were employing someone for a role and I had the resume of an Ivy League academic hotshot who knows how to read a book Vs a sound looking guy that one of my best traders says he thinks has the right attitude/beliefs to be a good trader, I'd bin the Ivy League resume. It may not be fair but it is how the world works and, being honest, it's an employment method that probably works the majority of the time.
4) READ SOME GOOD BOOKS THAT AREN'T ABOUT TECHNICAL ANALYSIS BUT ABOUT WHAT IT TRULY TAKES TO BE A TRADER- MARKET WIZARDS (ORIGINAL PRINT) FOR A START. You can learn technical analysis all you want but it is the attitude/approach that will eventually determine your success and longevity. If you lost money in the past, your self management and money management may have been a bit screwed. Learn the most expensive lessons from others- everybody who has made it knows how to limit the size of losers and a technical analsis book wont help you with the reality of it all.
I hope this is of some use and you get an interview somewhere as I was in a somewhat similar situation a few years ago. I started in the back office for Merrill Lynch for a couple of years and I just got so f***ked off I made a break and wouldn't give up until someone gave me a job. Now it is all going well trading wise (shouldn't tempt fate like that!) so as far as I am concerned, if you really want it, it is up to you to go and get it. If you truly believe in yourself, ignore the knockbacks but keep learning/adapting. Don't expect any free help getting an interview or an easy ride when you start. If this game were that easy, everyone would be trading and making a million.
All the best
Keep in contact with fellow alumni from your school. I would recommend going to the career services center and looking up past alumni who currently work in trading, sometimes they are willing to help you out. Or if you were in a fraternity, network that way.
As someone else pointed out, its often not WHAT you know but WHO you know!!!
The other advice is to get into a buy or sell side firm in a lowly role such as clerk or trader's assistant, soak up as much knowledge as you can and hopefully advance into being a trader one day
As someone else pointed out, its often not WHAT you know but WHO you know!!!
The other advice is to get into a buy or sell side firm in a lowly role such as clerk or trader's assistant, soak up as much knowledge as you can and hopefully advance into being a trader one day
I've seen this question asked many times and was once in your situation i.e average grades from a state school, little to no experience, etc...
Several years ago I took an approach similar to the following:
Find relevant contact names via industry associations, company websites, etc. For example, members of the Bond Market Association. As a backup, go to the WSJ archives, etc and type in a word/phrase relevant to your career interests and scan the articles for relevant contacts...
Next step, find their address via their company's website and send them a letter via snail mail (email is too easy to delete/ignore). Something along the lines of this (hopefully you can come up with something much better than this example) ending it with something like "I will call you next week to arrange a convenient time to speak with you..." DO NOT include your resume.
Before you call find out everything you can about their background, experience, etc (Google, NFA, NASDR, etc.)
When you call, will they offer you an interview/job? Probably not but many people are at least willing to give you 15 mins of their time (call after the market closes) to discuss their experience and your career interests.
It's not easy but it works if you do your due dilligence and are PERSISTENT.
For what it's worth, I know someone that recently used this approach to land a research position at a hedge fund and I've personally used it to obtain more than one position.
Several years ago I took an approach similar to the following:
Find relevant contact names via industry associations, company websites, etc. For example, members of the Bond Market Association. As a backup, go to the WSJ archives, etc and type in a word/phrase relevant to your career interests and scan the articles for relevant contacts...
Next step, find their address via their company's website and send them a letter via snail mail (email is too easy to delete/ignore). Something along the lines of this (hopefully you can come up with something much better than this example) ending it with something like "I will call you next week to arrange a convenient time to speak with you..." DO NOT include your resume.
Before you call find out everything you can about their background, experience, etc (Google, NFA, NASDR, etc.)
When you call, will they offer you an interview/job? Probably not but many people are at least willing to give you 15 mins of their time (call after the market closes) to discuss their experience and your career interests.
It's not easy but it works if you do your due dilligence and are PERSISTENT.
For what it's worth, I know someone that recently used this approach to land a research position at a hedge fund and I've personally used it to obtain more than one position.