Any traders here used to work for professional prop firms (think DRW, SIG) and now just trade a PA?
- Thread starter Tall Mike
- Start date
You find an edge by studying the markets sincerely. Sit in front of your charts 4 days a week, 3 weeks a month for half a year and it will come to you. I promiss. To make this exercise more prospectful study chart patterns and trends with Al Brooks trading course and also note down where price was every 30 minutes when watching the charts. Nobody ever puts that work in if I say it. It's a simple exercise and you are guaranteed to find something. If you don't do it it's your own fault for failing.
No one, and I mean no one, has a cumulatively profitable pnl using Al Brooks.
People leave legit prop firms because they hit risk limits and struggle to maintain their edge. From what I’ve heard, 2nd tier prop trading firms like FNY can help traders scale a business with more flexibility.
People leave legit prop firms because they hit risk limits and struggle to maintain their edge. From what I’ve heard, 2nd tier prop trading firms like FNY can help traders scale a business with more flexibility.
@David’d faith you’re right, especially with the observation “Nobody ever puts that work in if I say it. It's a simple exercise and you are guaranteed to find something. If you don't do it it's your own fault for failing.”
The thing is that most people just want to make money without putting in the required effort. People do not want to hear the truth that you wrote, so they’ll go and bug someone else.
It’s usually waste of time replying to such threads / posts.
You don't have to trade like brooks. You have to learn the definition of trends, candles closing, patterns etc. That the market has different behaviour during diferrent hours of the day, beeakouts fakeouts, how to trade trading ranges, how to see them coming, he ditches into risk management, trading psychology he mentions many things you need to hear at some point as a rookie. What better source to learn then from somebody who sincerely studied the markets like him? Wanna listen to a youtube guru, hoping he tells you such things? You have to hear it to analyse it yourself. I don't trade like Brooks but the concepts he taught me are in the very fundamental things of what I do. Trading like him is not very profitable, I agree, you have to take it further in order to make it work. But if you never heard it, chances are you miss out on the chance to take it further
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Its such a shame. Trading is like carrying your very own ATM with you. I never understand how people just deny the work and fail. A efing carriable ATM. Is it really not worth the effort?@David’d faith you’re right, especially with the observation “Nobody ever puts that work in if I say it. It's a simple exercise and you are guaranteed to find something. If you don't do it it's your own fault for failing.”
The thing is that most people just want to make money without putting in the required effort. People do not want to hear the truth that you wrote, so they’ll go and bug someone else.
It’s usually waste of time replying to such threads / posts.
no person who has worked for a proper firm would say “trading is like carrying your own atm”
First topic: No one who really have one would tell you any edge or even any hint. There are few reasons for that: 1. If one has some, means took him tons of time, effort, and work, and see no point in just giving it to anyone. You just expect people to work as hard to find their own. Second - many edges (except from fact that are temporary) can be liquidity sensitive, especially in some non most traded markets, or even stocks with not that volume, some shitcoins etc. etc. The more people to eat the cake, the smaller the pace.
Second: People can leave for different reasons, one already stated here - their edges stoped working and they couldn't find new ones (so basically natural way of market to be more and more efficient) - this part mostly for short term or even ultra short term trading. But there are also other obvious reasons - so stage in life, some move back to have more time with families etc.
And about pointing in right direction (in shortcut):
- as said before - screen time give you the most, but not just sitting and watching if you don't know what you watching ...
- you need to wide your knowledge about markets in the same time - both: specialization (so the markets you chose as yours and about market mechanics as all) and in general
- avoid 99,9% what you can find in YouTube or even on forums etc. - not useful,
- avoid all kind of those "retail oriented salesmen", including one already mentioned here - it has nothing to do with what people do in real props or other kind of places where people really live from trading, not from selling, coaching, "helping" (that's my favorite word, they all want to "help aspiring traders")
- so you look for ideas, you cut off what is nonsense, what you think can have sense you test yourself, you observe markets, you need to spot if there are some patterns (but be aware that many things you can think is pattern is just randomness of market), you build some strategy around it, edges will stop working (many of them) so you in meantime look for new ones, etc. etc.
- you also unfortunately need to remember that money makes money, too hardcore leverage and just unlucky strain of losses can kill many accounts. It's not like it's not possible to change small amount in decent trading capital (it is possible, saw it not once) but it is just very unlikely and also it demand some amount of pure luck (and perfectly some good trading conditions so aside costs won't eat you)
- if you want to read anything - you will do yourself a favor reading things related to gambling industry or poker (like "Beat the dealer" or books that teach you to think in bets and probabilities), or books that help you understand markets in general (like "Alchemy of finance" etc.) or books related to psychology (but be aware of another salesmen industry - next point), but not typical trading books - those are usually very useless
- avoid all kind of coaches, psychologists, all kind of this new area of "helping traders" - as most of that is useless nonsense (example: Mark Douglas stuff - on all forums and all over internet - ohh, ahh, so good, so fantastic, I don't share that view, neither a lot of colleagues). Also - if you see someone saying to you that if you will meditate half day or dance around the fire and sing kumbaya to find out what trauma stopping you from earning money - just run away. There is one thing that heal 90% of trading problems and that is positive expectancy. When you have it and able to make money then you can improve it with some help of that kind of people, not the way around.
There is much more to that, but you just start your journey and most important avoid garbage and things that can cost you not only money but time (doing all this random unproductive things)
Interesting with a thread where the OP asks for advice from former professional traders and several replies are from people endorsing Al Brooks (an eye surgeon turned vendor, i.e., salesman, and not a professional trader or with a professional trading background).