It depends on the taxes you saved. If you save 1 million dollars a year in taxes it's no problem to go to Monaco. If you want to avoid 5000 $ a year, it's better to pay the taxes.
For the majority over here i think they better pay the taxes.
Any trader From Italy?
- Thread starter Big_M_Surfer
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It depends on the taxes you saved. If you save 1 million dollars a year in taxes it's no problem to go to Monaco. If you want to avoid 5000 $ a year, it's better to pay the taxes.
For the majority over here i think they better pay the taxes.
Might be in some countries. If you move somwhere be sure to pay a lawyer who knows his stuff.
I live in Norway and any profit from buying and selling shares is taxed at a flat rate of 28% even if it is your only income and you make 100 trades a day and make 1 billion a year. I believe this is quite low compared to rest of Europe. Even better, from this year this income is tax free if kept in a corporation, and is only taxed at 28% when you pay yourself a dividend. I am sure someone will say this cant be true, but it is. I have never heard of any trader paying more than 28% and the law is quite clear on this.
Lefty,
you are right, but there is one essential point you don't tell people:
if you have plenty of money you can think about all these things, but most people have to find a way to make the money first. Afterwards they will probably do like you.
You past the stage of making money ( or having money) already.
But you're also right about the essence of the discussion:
first try to make money,afterwards you will be able to pay experts to find the best solution taxwise. Most people can't even accomplish the first part.
email & lefty,
Very nice stories about Italy. Lovely. As you both look back at older time periods and given our interest in taxes, one can ask, what the heck as fallen upon us these days?
Let me add another kind of a story about taxes in France. (I am not French, I only like to dabble a bit in French history).
In the good old days of the 'Sun King' Louis VIX, people were not happy about their taxes at all. Peasants, 95+% of the population in those days paid things like "taille" and "dime" representing around 10-15% of their harvest. Good old Louis VIX was incredibly indebted - he had rather expensive tastes. Montesquieu, not unknown to historians of the US constitution, wrote even a very short note on the catastrophic turn history would inevitably take for France if the aristocracy was not going to chip in for Louis' debts.
Indeed some 100 odd years later the revolution came and supposedly "freed" these rural French wretches from their tax bondage. Oh boy! Good old Louis never managed even to dream about the devilish democratic tax contraptions to come: Instead 0f 10-15%, his future democratic heirs managing to press 60+% revenue (VAT included) out of their "administrés" (=administered citizenry).
The French peasants not being dumb at all, soon realized the wry joke that had been pulled on them. (Orwell's Animal Farm). In early 1800, many tax revolts broke out all over rural France. I read about one in the Lot where the local gendarmerie wasn't able to suppress it and Paris had to sent the regular army to take on these poor peasants armed only with their farm implements.
I don't know about beautiful Italy, but this sad state of affairs cannot be too different. If you try to see where we come from and where we're headed for, tax matters are not irrelevant.
Be good,
nononsense
Very nice stories about Italy. Lovely. As you both look back at older time periods and given our interest in taxes, one can ask, what the heck as fallen upon us these days?
Let me add another kind of a story about taxes in France. (I am not French, I only like to dabble a bit in French history).
In the good old days of the 'Sun King' Louis VIX, people were not happy about their taxes at all. Peasants, 95+% of the population in those days paid things like "taille" and "dime" representing around 10-15% of their harvest. Good old Louis VIX was incredibly indebted - he had rather expensive tastes. Montesquieu, not unknown to historians of the US constitution, wrote even a very short note on the catastrophic turn history would inevitably take for France if the aristocracy was not going to chip in for Louis' debts.
Indeed some 100 odd years later the revolution came and supposedly "freed" these rural French wretches from their tax bondage. Oh boy! Good old Louis never managed even to dream about the devilish democratic tax contraptions to come: Instead 0f 10-15%, his future democratic heirs managing to press 60+% revenue (VAT included) out of their "administrés" (=administered citizenry).
The French peasants not being dumb at all, soon realized the wry joke that had been pulled on them. (Orwell's Animal Farm
). In early 1800, many tax revolts broke out all over rural France. I read about one in the Lot where the local gendarmerie wasn't able to suppress it and Paris had to sent the regular army to take on these poor peasants armed only with their farm implements.I don't know about beautiful Italy, but this sad state of affairs cannot be too different. If you try to see where we come from and where we're headed for, tax matters are not irrelevant.
Be good,
nononsense
Nahh, we have a nasty wealth tax of about 1,2% of your net worth. It kicks in already at 16000 USD. If you have 1000000 in stocks and make 10% a year, the wealth tax is a big deal. That means 28 000 in income tax and 12 000 in wealth tax. Stocks is measured at market price, but real estate has a huge discount tax wise. Therefore much better to invest in real estate compared to stocks. Also too many indirect taxes and too much welfare to pay.
Besides: climate, cost of living (I believe Oslo is top three in that regard) and the experience of living abroad. The bst thing is to buy real estate in Norway (high cost country) but living in a low cost country (Brazil for example). I have a Swedish friend doing that.
Quote from nononsense:
email & lefty,
Very nice stories about Italy. Lovely. As you both look back at older time periods and given our interest in taxes, one can ask, what the heck as fallen upon us these days?
Let me add another kind of a story about taxes in France. (I am not French, I only like to dabble a bit in French history).
In the good old days of the 'Sun King' Louis VIX, people were not happy about their taxes at all. Peasants, 95+% of the population in those days paid things like "taille" and "dime" representing around 10-15% of their harvest. Good old Louis VIX was incredibly indebted - he had rather expensive tastes. Montesquieu, not unknown to historians of the US constitution, wrote even a very short note on the catastrophic turn history would inevitably take for France if the aristocracy was not going to chip in for Louis' debts.
Indeed some 100 odd years later the revolution came and supposedly "freed" these rural French wretches from their tax bondage. Oh boy! Good old Louis never managed even to dream about the devilish democratic tax contraptions to come: Instead 0f 10-15%, his future democratic heirs managing to press 60+% revenue (VAT included) out of their "administrés" (=administered citizenry).
The French peasants not being dumb at all, soon realized the wry joke that had been pulled on them. (Orwell's Animal Farm
I don't know about beautiful Italy, but this sad state of affairs cannot be too different. If you try to see where we come from and where we're headed for, tax matters are not irrelevant.
Be good,
nononsense
nononsense,
where i live we pay:
13.07% on the income (wages) for social security; leaves 86.93 %
( your employer still has to add approx 30% on top of that)
on this amount income taxe approx 45% (between 25 and more than 60 depending on income); leaves 39.11%
on this income we pay 21% VAT if we buy things; leaves us 30.90% of what we bruto earn.
We also have yearly taxes on real estate, water, garbage, solidarity tax, cars, electricity........
I sometimes even wonder how we manage to survive.
Overhere tax matters are relevant.
But if you're unemployed and have a family to support you get more than 1300$ a month for doing nothing at all, and you get a lot of additional discounts on all kind of things. With a little bit of luck you even don't have to pay anything at all for healthcare. And when you retire you get a decent pension.
Hi spike,
Let me add that to my astonishment the "1300$ a month for doing nothing at all" starts to become a thing only available to the regular party card holders and newcomers card-holders to be.
This has been brought to my attention recently. If you happen to be a victim of justice, i.e. you didn't know the judge or the opposing party having a longer arm in these matters (judge family member, secret sects), you can easily been ruined. This often happens in divorce cases where victims get caught in an inescapable spiral for the rest of their lives. Some sleep in the street at the Bowery in New York or under the bridges of the Seine in Paris.
The "invisible hand" directing justice as well as other social matters (EU country) may set up things for above such victims, denying them the above monthly poverty allowance. Some took this to court where they heard the (remote controlled) social security bureaucrats plead nothing but gratuitous "insufficient cooperation" against them - this notwithstanding the hundreds of unanswered pages filed by the victim to back up his claims, nay even get him, peniless victim, condemned to pay back a few crappy allowances paid out earlier. This situation is truly atrocious given the fact that newcomers get such $1300 allowances without any questions asked to them, this probably in the (futile) hope it will swell the ranks of sympathetic future democratic voting cattle.
Baruch,
IMHO, Spike's overview seems to be kind of representative for all "old stock" EU union countries.