Any profitable traders want to make an extra 20% on top of your monthly gains?

[momoneythansens]

Quote from Thunderdog:

That just doesn't quite sit right. First, you expect a profitable trader to effectively reveal his trading strategy in explicit detail.

This may not be the case depending on the technology. For example, when you place a trade there could be technology to notify their black box such that the black box then mirrors the trade i.e. No strategy needs to be revealed it's simply a matter of mimicking after the fact.

I'm sure the OP does not expect you to take his assurances on good faith, hence to offer to arrange a call so that further due dilligence for both parties can be undertaken.

ET is such a cynical place!

Give the guy a chance to provide enough rope to hang himself...and then pounce. Until then, benefit of the doubt may be appropriate.

Perhaps, the OP could provide some more details on the process.

MoMoney.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from momoneythansens:

...I'm sure the OP does not expect you to take his assurances on good faith, hence to offer to arrange a call so that further due dilligence for both parties can be undertaken.

ET is such a cynical place!

Give the guy a chance to provide enough rope to hang himself...and then pounce. Until then, benefit of the doubt may be appropriate.

Fine. You convinced me that you should look into it. Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[SammySOESa]

Quote from Thunderdog:

That just doesn't quite sit right. First, you expect a profitable trader to effectively reveal his trading strategy in explicit detail.

why would anyone have to reveal their strategy? i'm not exactly sure i follow you on that. all they'd have to do is prove they're profitable. if i simply showed someone my P&L's for a few months, how would they be able to usurp my strategy?

Second, the trader is expected to take the word of complete strangers that they won't front run his strategy should it be worth considering. And how could this possibly be verified?

they don't even know your strategy, so how are they gonna front-run it? you initiate their trades. when you enter an order, the box enters the identical order. all of the trades on their end are made from a universal account copying all of the participating traders trades. it would be too confusing to decipher who's doing what.

right now i'm sitting 20 feet from the computer that's making the trades. i hear the bells and whistles going off, but other than that, no one's paying attention to it. the 2 owners of the company, and the money guy are just walking around, joking, eating, making their weekend golf plans. at 4 o'clock, they create the spreadsheet to proportion the monies, and go home.

why would they waste time going through all those co-mingled trades on all those stocks just to determine if some particular trader's a chartist, MACD guy, RSI, bollinger, momo, or what have you, when they're already making 80% of what that trader's making anyway? doing absolutely nothing (other than planning their tee times)?

I'd be interested to know what kind of people have signed up for this sort of arrangement, and how many. Care to share?

unfortunately, i'm not a principal in the company so i wouldn't feel comfortable giving out that kinda info. of the guys who've PM'd and emailed me these past 2 days, i'm sure they'll be willing to tell whether they checks have arrived on time or not.

 

[SammySOESa]

Quote from momoneythansens:

This may not be the case depending on the technology. For example, when you place a trade there could be technology to notify their black box such that the black box then mirrors the trade i.e. No strategy needs to be revealed it's simply a matter of mimicking after the fact.

I'm sure the OP does not expect you to take his assurances on good faith, hence to offer to arrange a call so that further due dilligence for both parties can be undertaken.

ET is such a cynical place!

Give the guy a chance to provide enough rope to hang himself...and then pounce. Until then, benefit of the doubt may be appropriate.

Perhaps, the OP could provide some more details on the process.

MoMoney.

i've been on this board for awhile now.. i knew someone would raise the strategy argument. traders treat their strategies like men manning the barbecue treat their meat. it's somewhat sacred. it's irreverent to grab the barbecue fork and handle another man's meat.

i totally understand the point Thunder's making. i even mentioned in the first post that people weren't gonna believe me, and that's fine. all i can say is no one cares what the particular trader's strategies are.. as long as they're consistent and successful.

the way i see it, if i was making 80% of what Steve Tvardek's making, plus 80% of what Szeven's making, plus 80% of Red Ink, plus 80% Huskydog, 80% of rjv27, 80% of MilleniumMan, 80% of EchoPatrick, and 80% of the money danjos is making, each and everyday, with ZERO effort, why would it even matter HOW those guys made it?

 

[swiftmike99]

Quote from SammySOESa:

i'm not a principal in their firm so i'm not sure how they came to the 20% figure, but i assume it's because they incur 100% of the slippage risk, while in-turn benefitting the trader by pushing their stocks in the right direction.

if someone's trading style is to pyramid into positions, i'd like having an 8-figure supported blackbox automatically sitting buy limit orders on stocks i was already in. or, if there's:

2,000 sitting on the offer at $30.00
1,000 sitting at $30.02
1,500 sitting at $30.05
500 sitting at $30.08
1,000 sitting at $30.11

and i KNEW a blackbox was gonna mimic my exact trade, i would put a market order in for 3,000 shares. i'd grab 3k at .00 and .02. by the time the prog was done sweeping the rest @ market, i'd immediately (theoretically) be up $300 on the trade.

that support would be a nice feature to have.

Coudn't you just use this to screw over the machine all the time? Since you don't cover the losses and only split the Profits. Great sign me up. I will put these guys out of business.

Swiftmike.

Ps. I am sure there is more to the prog than just this . They can scan for stuff like this and put you on manual execution. Kinda like Onada.

 

[Joab]

I think you should offer the opposite of this deal to non succesful traders, then you'd be on to something ;-)

 

[SammySOESa]

Quote from swiftmike99:

Coudn't you just use this to screw over the machine all the time? Since you don't cover the losses and only split the Profits. Great sign me up. I will put these guys out of business.

Swiftmike.

Ps. I am sure there is more to the prog than just this . They can scan for stuff like this and put you on manual execution. Kinda like Onada.

naa, it's 100% automated, so i'm sure some ne'er-do-well could have fun with it. the guys don't even sit at the computer.. just listen to it and glance over every now and then. i'm more fascinated by it and the idea than they are. the account is so "green" by the end of the day that they wouldn't even notice. if a pattern develops for that one guy, they'd sniff him out eventually and/or block those stocks he was manipulating.

i'm not sure how easy it would be to find a scenario like the one i presented, but it happens. they do have 20% daily negative slippage on one thin stock trader everyday, yet still make money off of his trades. if he makes $1,000, they still make $800. if a large buy is parceled in, and a huge sell is dumped @ market right after the trader's buy goes through, the computer will get a better, lower fill afterwards.

 

[Raystonn]

This would be a scalper's dream come true. You use a separate account to sit on the offer. You then perform a market buy on their system, and the black box adds more market buy volume. Congratulations, you just made the spread. Now do the reverse and you're flat with lots of cash.

 

[Bitstream]

Quote from Thunderdog:

That just doesn't quite sit right. First, you expect a profitable trader to effectively reveal his trading strategy in explicit detail. (For me, that ends it right there.) Second, the trader is expected to take the word of complete strangers that they won't front run his strategy should it be worth considering. And how could this possibly be verified? I don't think so. Once someone else knows your strategy, it is no longer your own.

I'd be interested to know what kind of people have signed up for this sort of arrangement, and how many. Care to share?

for your info he aint a stranger but a well known spammer that ripped off quite a few here with his ponzi schemes...theres a thread were he solicited et'ers to make payments/referrals to egold and the likes [needless to say that the shit hit the fun and the ponzi collapsed]...maybe it has been deleted..am sure it was closed...electric [ror ;d] has been 1 of the victims by the way. just beware.

 

[SammySOESa]

Quote from Bitstream:

for your info he aint a stranger but a well known spammer that ripped off quite a few here with his ponzi schemes...theres a thread were he solicited et'ers to make payments/referrals to egold and the likes [needless to say that the shit hit the fun and the ponzi collapsed]...maybe it has been deleted..am sure it was closed...electric [ror ;d] has been 1 of the victims by the way. just beware.

quite a few? really? name 'em. electric unfortunately stopped using his fraud-protection credit card to make his updates. that was part of the process and why he wasn't protected. everyone who used their cards as i strongly suggested from day one, started with $20 as i also suggested, and filed their claims, got their money back.

autosurfing is still going strong, and nimble surfers are still making great money doing it.