Any good reason to use index CFDs given the emergence of E-micros? Are index CFDs obsolete?

index cfds also incur swap charges everyday if you're using them to hold long-term positions, which should be their only use since the spreads don't make short-term trading worth it. since you're dealing against your broker, you inevitably run into situations where the broker screws you over in execution. the biggest con i can think of with cfds would be stops however. in futures, server-side oco are largely supported and perhaps this is the reason why i have found the slippage when stops are triggered to be much less than it is with cfd brokers. then again, i haven't had experience with "quality" cfd brokers like LMAX who boast ultra-low latency and execution times so who knows.

now that we have "mini" or "micro" versions of many of the most popular products like mini-HSI, mini-DAX, and now, micro-ES/NQ, there really is no reason to trade indice cfds unless you have a pressing need to trade something like the FTSE100 or SFE SPI 200 and you don't have a large enough account.
 
canoe said:
index cfds also incur swap charges everyday if you're using them to hold long-term positions, which should be their only use since the spreads don't make short-term trading worth it. since you're dealing against your broker, you inevitably run into situations where the broker screws you over in execution. the biggest con i can think of with cfds would be stops however. in futures, server-side oco are largely supported and perhaps this is the reason why i have found the slippage when stops are triggered to be much less than it is with cfd brokers. then again, i haven't had experience with "quality" cfd brokers like LMAX who boast ultra-low latency and execution times so who knows.

now that we have "mini" or "micro" versions of many of the most popular products like mini-HSI, mini-DAX, and now, micro-ES/NQ, there really is no reason to trade indice cfds unless you have a pressing need to trade something like the FTSE100 or SFE SPI 200 and you don't have a large enough account.
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Sorry but i make good money on here daytrading as do others, just because you can’t doesnt mean others can’t.

Lmax was on my list of brokers to move to, went ICMarkets, very good SL so far been within 0.2 of SL and didnt trigger and out very quickly and a good price on the few spikes that have went against me.
 
Turveyd said:
Sorry but i make good money on here daytrading as do others, just because you can’t doesnt mean others can’t.

Lmax was on my list of brokers to move to, went ICMarkets, very good SL so far been within 0.2 of SL and didnt trigger and out very quickly and a good price on the few spikes that have went against me.
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i never said i couldn't make money day-trading indice cfds. i also never said you can't make money day-trading indice cfds. you're putting words in my mouth.

i specifically said it's not worth it because:

the cost of doing business daytrading indices is higher with cfds than exchange-traded futures, esp more so with the introduction of micros since it removes the scaling advantage of cfds.

you will get much lower commissions, infinitely better spreads, better trade fills, better stop fills, overnight margins are low now that micros are here, no swap fees, etc.

the cost of doing business trading is also a critical part of your "edge." this includes taxes too. as a trader, your job is to maximize your edge as much as possible. that's why i said day-trading cfd indices is not worth it when micro exchange-traded futures are widely available now.
 
canoe said:
i never said i couldn't make money day-trading indice cfds. i also never said you can't make money day-trading indice cfds. you're putting words in my mouth.

i specifically said it's not worth it because:

the cost of doing business daytrading indices is higher with cfds than exchange-traded futures, esp more so with the introduction of micros since it removes the scaling advantage of cfds.

you will get much lower commissions, infinitely better spreads, better trade fills, better stop fills, overnight margins are low now that micros are here, no swap fees, etc.

the cost of doing business trading is also a critical part of your "edge." this includes taxes too. as a trader, your job is to maximize your edge as much as possible. that's why i said day-trading cfd indices is not worth it when micro exchange-traded futures are widely available now.
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Not Worth it because, is the same exact thing, but I've proved to myself it is more than worth it.

if you're using them to hold long-term positions, which should be their only use since the spreads don't make short-term trading worth it
 
no. you've only proved to yourself that you're able to make money off of day-trading cfd indices.

you can daytrade the NQ either via cfds or micro futures.
perhaps you're a good trader and you can make money either way.
but your costs daytrading the NQ will always be lower with micro futures versus cfds.
so even if you can still make money daytrading NQ cfds, it is NOT WORTH IT when you can make the same amount with less expenses via micro futures.

worth it =/= able to make money off of it

get it?
 
canoe said:
no. you've only proved to yourself that you're able to make money off of day-trading cfd indices.

you can daytrade the NQ either via cfds or micro futures.
perhaps you're a good trader and you can make money either way.
but your costs daytrading the NQ will always be lower with micro futures versus cfds.
so even if you can still make money daytrading NQ cfds, it is NOT WORTH IT when you can make the same amount with less expenses via micro futures.

worth it =/= able to make money off of it

get it?
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No you said, it's not worth day trading due to costs and I disagree massively.

If I can do it, then so can others, stop trying to steer others away just because you failed.

Costs aren't that bad via CFD, I trade US30/YM, $20 a $10 per pt entry, average profit $200 so Spread costs 10% of profit, I can live with paying that!!
 
Turveyd said:
No you said, it's not worth day trading due to costs and I disagree massively.

If I can do it, then so can others, stop trying to steer others away just because you failed.

Costs aren't that bad via CFD, I trade US30/YM, $20 a $10 per pt entry, average profit $200 so Spread costs 10% of profit, I can live with paying that!!
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no i said it's not worth day trading indice CFDs due to costs, not that it's not worth day trading in general due to costs.

you keep trying to further this narrative that i'm saying this b/c i "failed" or lost money trading cfds. LOL you have no idea how much i make or made and the fact that you get so triggered simply by me pointing out the facts about the costs of trading indice cfds tells me everything i need to know about how profitable you are.

costs aren't that bad via CFDs? my point is the costs are even lower when trading exchange-traded micro futures. there is literally no reason to trade indice CFDs at this point unless you're trying to trade an indice product that has no micro/mini-version in futures. that's why i'm saying it's not worth it because there's an alternative available now that's identical in almost every way except with much lower costs.
 
canoe said:
no i said it's not worth day trading indice CFDs due to costs, not that it's not worth day trading in general due to costs.

you keep trying to further this narrative that i'm saying this b/c i "failed" or lost money trading cfds. LOL you have no idea how much i make or made and the fact that you get so triggered simply by me pointing out the facts about the costs of trading indice cfds tells me everything i need to know about how profitable you are.

costs aren't that bad via CFDs? my point is the costs are even lower when trading exchange-traded micro futures. there is literally no reason to trade indice CFDs at this point unless you're trying to trade an indice product that has no micro/mini-version in futures. that's why i'm saying it's not worth it because there's an alternative available now that's identical in almost every way except with much lower costs.
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But i trade cfds 2pt spread cost on us30 when us30 has had 200pr moves recently is fine.

If anything real futures is looking more expensive.
 
I don't truly know WTF CFDs are, since I'm in the US.

But from the basics I have read, It is basically a future that does not expire. If I had access to something like that, I'd never have to close a loser!
 
Elji said:
They can be traded 24/7 against 22.75/5 for US futures.

They never expire.

I have never heard of my cfd broker (IG) to be down. CME servers are down sometimes.

Cfd have no backwardation/contango.

Leverage is huge in some countries (over 300 ...).

IMHO: cfd are an excellent hedging tool compared to futures for small traders but they are not liquid enough for the big institutions.
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2 old reasons I would avoid CFD even more
- You are playing against the house
- Not a true Direct market
- Client money protection is sketchy with an SIPC protected "hybrid" broker ( like IB) you can get protection.
 
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