Any firms out there that are created for position traders

Quote from traderNik:



I would guess that the reason many prop firms stick to the commission model is that it's easier. Why don't many prop firms focus on a model based on the arrangement you're suggesting? Just a guess, but could it be because it isn't that easy to find traders who are going to long-term, low vol profitable, and the ones that are can find the best of both worlds (salary, benefits, at least some job security, vacation) trading at an institution?
More...

Thank you for a good response. I appreciate it.

Don, on your side of things (if you're perusing this chain) would you be open to such an arrangement? I assume we'd have to PM about it if possible.
 
Quote from robbie380:

usually this question comes from traders who are not profitable. is this the case with you?
More...

I'm not a trader but after lspeaking to various managers at these trading arcades its become fairly clear their interests are not aligned with the trader, but I am sure you are one of the top traders at your shop which is why you went through this thread in the first place
 
Quote from SchraderTrader:

Thank you for a good response. I appreciate it.

Don, on your side of things (if you're perusing this chain) would you be open to such an arrangement? I assume we'd have to PM about it if possible.
More...


Don we would all like to hear your opinion on this, if you are confident in your ability to train traders why not create a more formal and selective training program that places an emphasis on profitability rather than commissions, clearly you seem to stand out as one of the more legit shops and you seem far better capitalized than most other places so why wouldnt you start a training program similar to that of first new york?
 
Quote from SchraderTrader:

Just doing a little spit-balling. I'm thinking more of the trad'l hedge fund structure. Why don't prop firms such as yours expand by opening a hedge fund-structured office. My thought process is the following:

When the firm's main stream of revenue is from profitable trading and not commissions, both trader and firm are in better alignment. It creates more of a win-win.

Firm owners earn more from profitable trading than commissions if they have good traders/investors. Keep the entrance for trading strict - similar to a comp package I mentioned earlier.
Trader is on 2-3 month probation period when they start. They earn something nominal, $1,000/month or whatever. If they show their merit over a 1, 2, or 3 month period of time they receive a salary of $40k with profit-share of 50% of their output, or whatever (move the figures as desired).

Your company becomes more diversified because now you're not just relying on day trading commissions but actual profit-generating position traders.

Just some thoughts.
More...

I responded to the other thread first, sorry. We keep our money in our family trading accounts, keep all of our profits, and don't have anyone to thank (or to blame, LOL) for the results. And, as long as my brother keeps most of the $100's of millions vested (instead of me, LOL)....I sleep much better at night. (Don't mind me, I'm having a bad trading day, LOL).

If you can find someone to give you a $100 million, start a hedge fund. If you need a few million to trade with, put up a little money and keep all the profits....IMO.

Don (I'll read the rest of the posts now).
 
Quote from SchraderTrader:

Thank you for a good response. I appreciate it.

Don, on your side of things (if you're perusing this chain) would you be open to such an arrangement? I assume we'd have to PM about it if possible.
More...

Bright allows overnight directional trading with sme leverage. But you must have up a deposit, pay high commissions especially if you aren't trading much volume and pay interest rates on the overnight leverage that you use. And the interest rates are so high that it makes it extremely hard for the trader to be profitable, because Bright wants to discourage this because the risk is very high for Bright. That is why Bright has very few traders that trade this way there.

Why are you on ET ranting and trying to change the setup of the current prop firms? You said this setup is already out there, so why don't you go and get a trading job at a real hedgefund or bank? Probably it is because you don't have an Ivy League Pedigree or a track record.

You appear to be acting like a little boy throwing a temper tantrum because he can't get what he wants.
 
Quote from SchraderTrader:

Very good point.... so the questions stands - why don't some of these prop groups start a hedge fund? Owners of prop shops are encouraged to respond.

Is it because commissions are a sure thing while profitable traders wouldn't be?
More...

"prop groups start a hedge fund"...??? A bunch of guys putting money up together, and some make money and some lose money...hmmm? Why would the winning guys want to support the losing guys....and if everyone is making money, why share in the profits.

I'm still not sure, after reading most of the posts, what it is that you're looking to do? Maybe a PM would help.

All the best,

Don
 
Quote from UDon'tKnowMe:

Why are you on ET ranting and trying to change the setup of the current prop firms? You said this setup is already out there, so why don't you go and get a trading job at a real hedgefund or bank? Probably it is because you don't have an Ivy League Pedigree or a track record.

You appear to be acting like a little boy throwing a temper tantrum because he can't get what he wants.
More...

Your ignorance is exceeded only by your bad manners, bud.

I do not have an Ivy degree and I have a limited track record, made up mainly of virtual trades. I do have a solid track record of finding profitable short term opportunities in the market and exposing where Wall Street has exaggerated things.

I posed a question to the owners of prop firms and you decided to thrust yourself into the conversation. I consider a man a fool who does not question the status quo. I sought an answer to my question and was provided one. What have you done for the community except attempt to provoke? You've provided no quality input to the discussion and instead have engaged in personal attacks against a stranger. Kudos, you must be the best of the best.
 
Quote from traderNik:

Don has already chimed in but I spoke to one of his managers a few years back and that guy basically told me that Bright would accomodate any style of trading once they had established a sense of the trader's abilities.
More...

True, as mentioned before, our traders can keep positions as long as they like...same basic risk parameters, but as long as they like.

Don (still catching up on posts, LOL).
 
Quote from sltrader:

Don we would all like to hear your opinion on this, if you are confident in your ability to train traders why not create a more formal and selective training program that places an emphasis on profitability rather than commissions, clearly you seem to stand out as one of the more legit shops and you seem far better capitalized than most other places so why wouldnt you start a training program similar to that of first new york?
More...

We encourage the entrepreurial type traders...those who want to run their own careers (within our organization). This is the same "floor trading business model" that worked so well for us "back in the day."

Reminds me of when my brother played on blackjack team back in the 70's (Kenny Uston - "The Big Player")...Bob made money, quit the "team" in a couple of weeks...figured "why should I support the other guys by giving away my profits."

Regarding training, it works for some, it doesn't for others... some people do better than others...we are a conduit and provider of capital..we share what we see working, not guarantee anyone profitability.

Don :)
 
Quote from SchraderTrader:

Your ignorance is exceeded only by your bad manners, bud.

I do not have an Ivy degree and I have a limited track record, made up mainly of virtual trades. I do have a solid track record of finding profitable short term opportunities in the market and exposing where Wall Street has exaggerated things.

I posed a question to the owners of prop firms and you decided to thrust yourself into the conversation. I consider a man a fool who does not question the status quo. I sought an answer to my question and was provided one. What have you done for the community except attempt to provoke? You've provided no quality input to the discussion and instead have engaged in personal attacks against a stranger. Kudos, you must be the best of the best.
More...

Check the post, you engaged in a personal attack against me first, for no reason and without any provokation. I posted on this thread to answer one of the questions of the thread. Why don't prop firms allow longterm trading? And I attempted to answer it, and also believe I achieved in answering it. <b>Because it is not profitable for the firm, the firms risk of loss out ways any possible rewards.</b>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top