any daytraders out there

Quote from OldTrader:

Thought I'd respond to your post, although I'm really responding to any of number of posts I've read in recent weeks regarding these 'lousy markets'.

You know, I've been in these markets a long time. I've seen lots of changes. For instance, you could have traded gold between 1976 to 1980. We went from something like $100 an ounce to 850. What a move that was. The move back down was equally breath-taking....we went under $300 by 1982. From there, the market got quieter and quieter. I can remember day trading gold. There came a time when it really wasn't worth the effort. You played the swings, or you didn't play. Then there came a time when the swings were as large as the DAILY moves had been at one time.

The point is...times change. I remember 1976 in the stock market. I think we spent most of the year between 970 and 1000 on the Dow. That's a 3% range. Of course, most of us weren't daytrading back then in the stock market....the commissions in and out might have been 2-3% back then!

Times change. And when they change, you change with them if you want to keep trading. I'm an old dog now, but I can still learn new tricks. From the sounds of it, I may be learning more new tricks than you are....and chances are I'm one helluva lot older.

You know, I really have no complaints at all about this market. I think it's a great market. Of course, mostly I don't day trade stocks. I trade the stock futures. When I trade stocks I hold them for a move typically. Otherwise, why bother? They're just getting jerked around by the futures anyway in the short term.

If you're waiting for the 90's to come back where anyone can trade a stock, you'll probably be waiting for a long time. Now what you do is you learn how to trade. This is your occupation. If you don't like the way one thing trades, you find another. If you can't day trade, then perhaps you have to hold more than a day. So what?

You know, some of the great traders of the time believed that you could not trade every day anyway. I don't believe that myself, but I do believe that scalping a few cents here and there is a poor way to go. Even on a day basis, the bigger money is in the bigger moves. And holding for a day or two is no more risky in my mind than trading day by day. Most moves in the stock market are not 'day' moves.

Tell ya what. When things aren't working for me, I like to step back, take a hard look at what I'm doing, figure out if I'm trying to zig, when zagging is what's happening. I suggest that you do the same.

And the next time you feel like lamenting over markets of past years, just remember, when you get to be my age, you'll have seen so many changes you'll have lost track. It's called life.

And finally, I'd like to comment briefly on 'how' people seem to trade these days. In my beginnings the idea was to LEARN the markets. There was an old codger at the time who used to tell me that if the unchanged stocks were greater than the advances, we'd rally after the first hour. LOL. That used to work at one time! But the point is, you watched the tape, you watch how stocks moved, you watched how the news affected them, you watched how they acted when someone said something. You noticed how they moved in the AM after they were strong the last hour, etc etc etc. In other words, we all spent every waking moment trying to learn how the market worked.

These days, you folks have all got canned software that calculates out things like stochastics, MACD, RSI, rate of change, etc. You know, in the old days we found out the hard way that overbought oscillators basically don't work. But they hadn't even invented stochastics at that time...thank God. It doesn't work either...unless you can understand Jack Hershey! MACD...the difference between a couple of moving averages. You know folks, it has nothing to do with the market and what the market does.

So here's the thiing, spend some time just observing. Put some stocks, some indexes, some sectors, the A/D, tick, trin on a quote board, and then sit quietly and watch it. See how it acts when it reaches round numbers, important points, when news in announced. You need to understand this thing, and that may well help you with your trading.

Good luck with it.

OldTrader
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OldTrader, love reading your posts! Glad you're still here! :cool:

ROCK
 
Thank you for your time. I your posts throughout ET and by their context I knew you were a veteran trader without you saying so. It is refreshing to read your discussions about trading. Well, Jacks too. But you do not need to agree. Everbody trades differently...... even the veterans. This is what makes trading work.

Please keep posting your gems for us new generation traders to glean from. I have been trading since the online revolution hit the market (1996). I remember I had an old account with Merrill Lynch called Sharebuilder in 1980 or so, but used the phone then.

I have a lot to learn and have made many mistakes. Time goes by....and I try again. Each time I last longer. I trade one instrument now which is the ES. I find it very challenging.

Well, anyways Thank You again,

Michael B.
 
I began rereading "Reminiscences" again. The author talks about how his 'bucket shop' edge was lost.

The point was that he adapted to the change from easy pickings to the bigger challenges of trading less cooperative markets.

*****
Oldtrader, posts like that are what I've been waiting for.
 
Oldtrader,

I'm glad to see your a bit more active back here. I read all of your posts and generally think they are very good. Probably my favorite poster.

Brandon
 
Quote from chasinfla:

I began rereading "Reminiscences" again. The author talks about how his 'bucket shop' edge was lost.

The point was that he adapted to the change from easy pickings to the bigger challenges of trading less cooperative markets.
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I was thinking it was more like a delayed data problem. :)
 
Brother Silk... times are definitely tougher... and to all those who say "the best traders adapt and handle it", I say "sure we do, but our P&L's are still lower than during better times, and P&L is all that matters"...

But ya just gotta keep the cash registers ringin till the goldrush starts again... jeez, I look back fondly on those times where I could make in 1-3 weeks what I now average in a month...
 
Quote from plumlazy:




I was thinking it was more like a delayed data problem. :)
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that was part of it. it's analogous to the 'fictitious quote, front running problem' that today's listed traders face. the remedy was to become a more focused student of the market and adjust his holding period accordingly.

the bucket shops filled him immediately at the posted price -- and that was a tremedous edge. when he began trading stocks proper, he found the fills were much less ideal. similar, in a way, to the way daytraders got filled by SOESing, or NX'ing, and then those things didn't work as well any more.

the bucket shops were easy pickings. so were the late 1990's. IMHO, it's almost a perfect analogy.
 
i dont think there is much value added by being a scalper in this market. its more about finding the correct sector and getting long and staying long most of day.
 
Quote from vhehn:

i dont think there is much value added by being a scalper in this market. its more about finding the correct sector and getting long and staying long most of day.
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Nothing wrong with the short side ... to only play the long side is incredibly limiting IMO.
 
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