Gold.
Any advice for a soon to be full-time trader?
- Thread starter Howard
- Start date
Thank you! I sincerely appreciate it. I also enjoyed your other comments.
Well, your joke might not be that far off...
I'm not using my cash savings for trading. My account is already funded and my living expenses are separated from that. I'm not pressured to withdraw any money in 6 months and I will focus only on growing my account and continuing to work on my craft.
Even at the 6 month mark - I believe I may have other options to raise money, so I'm not worried about that.
The key for me is to be able to think ahead and focus on small, consistent returns which I can compound/scale.
Thanks a lot, BlueWaterSailor! Really appreciate it.
Thanks a lot, lvp. Nice to hear.
Mind me asking briefly about your strategies? Day trading? Which markets?
Any other advice that can be useful beyond the actual trading part?
Best,
Howard
Howard,
I've been trading the emini's full time for a decade. But I also would never want to be fully reliant on it as my sole source of income. Between rental properties, dividend income, and a small landscaping business where I'm really just mowing a few peoples lawns per week, I keep busy and make sure i have multiple sources. There's just too much pressure to perform when you need the money for rent and markets just aren't lining up for your particular strategy.
I've always had a rule that when I'm up $8-$9k on the month I quit for the rest of the month. I could definitely make more, but its not going to impact my standard of living and I value my free time, what little of it i have. I understand I'm the exception rather than the rule, but it works for me.
Also, its important to be able to take breaks from the market. Draw downs and personal issues can affect your psychology and impact performance. If you're 100% reliant on trading income, this can be a problem. not being able to take vacations or sabaticals of any sort.
Good luck to you.
I've been trading the emini's full time for a decade. But I also would never want to be fully reliant on it as my sole source of income. Between rental properties, dividend income, and a small landscaping business where I'm really just mowing a few peoples lawns per week, I keep busy and make sure i have multiple sources. There's just too much pressure to perform when you need the money for rent and markets just aren't lining up for your particular strategy.
I've always had a rule that when I'm up $8-$9k on the month I quit for the rest of the month. I could definitely make more, but its not going to impact my standard of living and I value my free time, what little of it i have. I understand I'm the exception rather than the rule, but it works for me.
Also, its important to be able to take breaks from the market. Draw downs and personal issues can affect your psychology and impact performance. If you're 100% reliant on trading income, this can be a problem. not being able to take vacations or sabaticals of any sort.
Good luck to you.
How much are your current monthly living expenses ?
6 months saved is OK but 12 months is ideal
6 months saved is OK but 12 months is ideal
Let me add my experience, as I had the same thought at one point. This is going back to like ... 2002.
I sat down, and did the math, and I was honest with myself on Realistic Expectations of Return (See the post I made on that ... here: https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...essful-day-trading.335523/page-8#post-4932675 )
I was honest with myself. I knew, what I had, was simply too small. It was. The math told me so. So I sat down my wife, and explained what I wanted to do. I wanted to trade, as a career (I do now, and trade OPM).
Back then, I was going to either:
A) Trade OPM, which I didn't feel I was ready for
B) Suddenly magically, have $800,000 ... which I didn't
C) Have income coming in from somewhere else, while I beat out a track record
D) Just traded my own capital, and ground my way up to that $800k. I did the math, and knew that would be a long, long, long grind.
E) Get a job, and try to trade simultaneously.
I went with C. So sitting down with my wife, I told her my plan. I showed her my trading statements. We talked about my strategy and down periods. She was ok with working, while I traded. We'd use her income, while I beat out my track record.
Note: It takes a pretty special person to agree to that. My wife was a bit leery? But she's an incredibly supportive individual ... and she wanted to show she believed in me. And there WERE down months. This is why I tell people that I didn't work on my track record. My wife and I beat out my track record.
It still took longer than I expected, to begin trading OPM.
Those are the variables you need to consider.
If I had $15k, and wanted income? I'm sorry, but it's just not enough. Not if you beat out 3% every single month into perpetuity, with no DD months or even FLAT, which as I pointed out in that thread with the public databases ... NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD has done. Even if you COULD do it? It still wouldn't be enough money. You'd still need a lot more.
My advice? Go with the post I put up in that thread, and beat out a track record, which you can use to prove your skill, so you can raise $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 minimum of OPM
I sat down, and did the math, and I was honest with myself on Realistic Expectations of Return (See the post I made on that ... here: https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...essful-day-trading.335523/page-8#post-4932675 )
I was honest with myself. I knew, what I had, was simply too small. It was. The math told me so. So I sat down my wife, and explained what I wanted to do. I wanted to trade, as a career (I do now, and trade OPM).
Back then, I was going to either:
A) Trade OPM, which I didn't feel I was ready for
B) Suddenly magically, have $800,000 ... which I didn't
C) Have income coming in from somewhere else, while I beat out a track record
D) Just traded my own capital, and ground my way up to that $800k. I did the math, and knew that would be a long, long, long grind.
E) Get a job, and try to trade simultaneously.
I went with C. So sitting down with my wife, I told her my plan. I showed her my trading statements. We talked about my strategy and down periods. She was ok with working, while I traded. We'd use her income, while I beat out my track record.
Note: It takes a pretty special person to agree to that. My wife was a bit leery? But she's an incredibly supportive individual ... and she wanted to show she believed in me. And there WERE down months. This is why I tell people that I didn't work on my track record. My wife and I beat out my track record.
It still took longer than I expected, to begin trading OPM.
Those are the variables you need to consider.
If I had $15k, and wanted income? I'm sorry, but it's just not enough. Not if you beat out 3% every single month into perpetuity, with no DD months or even FLAT, which as I pointed out in that thread with the public databases ... NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD has done. Even if you COULD do it? It still wouldn't be enough money. You'd still need a lot more.
My advice? Go with the post I put up in that thread, and beat out a track record, which you can use to prove your skill, so you can raise $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 minimum of OPM
If your not making money in 6months full time then your just wasting time, never waste time.
Find a strategy trading NQ for instance 6pts avg loss, but you can let ride for 5xs that at times, nothing but losers the other day, made it all back on the run into the close, maybe just join runs into the close
Yes. Multiple streams of income is for sure ideal.
I will consider ways to add at least some income. I could easily work 60-70 % of a full week and combine it with trading. It's the 100-150% weeks I find very hard to combine with trading. Or even impossible as I'm not home when the market is actually open/opening.
As mentioned earlier, I also have friends who have jobs offering full remote home-office solutions which is certainly something which would make it easier to combine a full time job with full time trading. But that's not going to happen with the job I have now, so I'm confident that I'm taking the right step in quitting.
Interesting! And thanks!
You're quitting when you're ahead for the month, but how about when you're ahead for the day? Do you operate with daily profit targets?
What I've been doing now that I have part time traded some (and grown my account doing so) is that I've secured a small profit on some size and then either scaled back to one contract only or traded the rest of the day in simulator mode.
Ultimately, I want to trade the entire day and take all my signals, but there's something about knocking out some consistency and protecting profits initially as I grow my confidence in executing live trades.
Thank you for your comment. You're lucky to have a very supportive wife who believed in you. Also, congratulations on making it as a trader!
This raises more questions on my end if I may:
1. How long did you trade while having your wife support you and build your track record? Because in your post you said you'd want to see a bare minimum of 3 years as a track record? Ideally 5 years?
2. What did you trade?
3. What exactly does a track record consist of if I would want to 'sell myself' somewhere down the line? Is a broker statement sufficient or do I somehow need to document my trading results in more detail? If so - how?
Thanks in advance.
Howard
Well, in actuality, I have the equivalent of 6-7 monthly salaries at my current job saved up. So, in terms of living expenses, I might have more than 6 months saved up, but I like to be a bit conservative as unexpected things usually happen.