Another "Pro Lifer" kills...

[OPTIONAL777]

Who exactly is censoring you because of your political positions?

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Not only the best post on this thread but a great synopsis defining the political, cultural and moral debate in America.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

A fetus is not a citizen.

If you want to show me a US passport of a fetus, go ahead...

Quote from jem:

"No, it's a question of busybodies and big government. You do what you want and stop bugging the rest of us."


The above is known as the fallacy of bullshit.

There is no more core value of a government than to protect its citizen's rights to exist.

It is not big government to enforce laws against murder - it is virtually the first law of government.

In our government I will not kill you and you will not kill me.

The very next question is who else shall we protect from unjustified killing.

When you get down to babies you separate the culture of life vs the culture of death.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from jem:

"No, it's a question of busybodies and big government. You do what you want and stop bugging the rest of us."


The above is known as the fallacy of bullshit.

No, it's a perfectly reasonable statement. You keep your government out of my bedroom, and you keep your government out of personal moral decisions.

There is no more core value of a government than to protect its citizen's rights to exist.

Great, then ban birth control, you know, to "save the citizens."

It is not big government to enforce laws against murder - it is virtually the first law of government.

Exactly -- you see this debate isn't about abortion at all, but extremism. Any extremist can justify any action to prevent "murder."

 

[OPTIONAL777]

How about keeping government out of the privacy of a doctor's office providing legal medical procedures...

Quote from bigdavediode:

No, it's a perfectly reasonable statement. You keep your government out of my bedroom, and you keep your government out of personal moral decisions.



Great, then ban birth control, you know, to "save the citizens."



Exactly -- you see this debate isn't about abortion at all, but extremism. Any extremist can justify any action to prevent "murder."

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

How about keeping government out of the privacy of a doctor's office providing legal medical procedures...

Because it's murder! MURDER!

Umm... and we're also saying that vigilantes shouldn't do anything about this mass baby killing of innocent babies.

 

[stu]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

One consistent trait of the hard left is their desire to censor the opposition. They use the ridiculous dictates of political correctness to define a vast list of topics as off limits for discussion. Of course, these just happen to be the topics on which they have weak or unpopular positions, eg racial quotas, affirmative action, identity politics (all involved in the sotomayor nomination), amnesty for illegal aliens, open borders, global warming, the radical homosexual agenda and of course, abortion.

We are lectured that abortion is legal, courtesy of a made-up constitutional "right" that had somehow eluded the most famous Supreme Court Justices for 200 years. While this "right" is paramount, other more familiar constitutional rights do not receive such fawning respect from the left.

For example, the First Amendment. The left views the First Amendment free exercise of religion clause as mainly a tool to force the removal of any and all Christian symbols from public view, including some that have stood for generations. That clause also guarantees the "free exercise" of religion however. In addition, the First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech.

When pro life groups characterize abortion as the killing of a baby, they are exercising their constitutional rights, not engaging in terrorism, hate speech or encouraging murder. Belief in the sanctity of innocent human life is a core belief of virtually every major religion and is clearly protected by the First Amendment. Most Christians and muslims believe that abortion violates that tenet of faith. They are under no obligation, legal or otherwise, to temper their language to make it less uncomfortable for those in the abortion industry.

In fact, the use of accurate language to describe the abortion process is central to the pro life mission. It prevents mothers from being misled by the soothing marketing message of Planned Parenthood, and it forces at least some would be abortionists to focus on exactly what they would be using their medical training to accomplish.

The attempt to muzzle pro lifers is being presaged by similar efforts to censor those who object to the radical homosexual agenda. Those efforts are further along and have resulted in significant erosion of free speech and religious freedom rights. Many workers have been forced to choose between their faith and their jobs when forced to attend diversity training. No government or business employer would force a muslim to eat pork, but they have no qualms about forcing Christians to implement homosexual policies that violate their faith.

The message to pro lifers is that rights that are not tenaciously defended are lost.

yuk...honestly. ET should provide sick bags when you post.

I am very much uneasy about abortion in general and I feel 22 weeks is just too far anyway. I have an overwhelming sense that humans should treat life as if it were inviolable.

But constructing smarmy political speak, encouraging and excusing outrageous and misleading language or violence against those who do not share my views about it, calling it murder when it is not, linking it with arguments against homosexuals , playing the victim feigning lifers are being censored , expecting to be taken seriously by pleading a holy Christian self-righteousness on moral grounds for human life when at the same time you take the role of hypocritical religious apologist in condescending explanations why your Christian "Father" drowned all his own children, is never going help me crystallize my doubt to your way of thinking.
I’m sure many don't like the whole abortion question too and wish your stupid fucking God had never made it a problem in the first place so putting that religion crap forward yet again as if it can answer anything is no idea at all.

bigdavediode has given rational practical and reasonable argument for - in a strong defense of.
It's time lifers treated the audience in similar manner and came up with some responsible dialogue and meaningful justification.

 

[jem]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

A fetus is not a citizen.

If you want to show me a US passport of a fetus, go ahead...

you leftist idiots are so offended by the truth you start making up strawmen.

When did I or anyone on this thread make the argument a fetus is a citizen?

Go ahead be pro death? But tell the truth you are in favor of dismembering un born human beings crushing their brains and sucking out the parts with a vacuum.

Have the guts to stop posing strawman.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

You wrote:

"There is no more core value of a government than to protect its citizen's rights to exist."

A fetus is not a citizen, it is not a human being, so any comment that followed the above that had to do with a fetus would be moot.

That included any fetus that is not born...a fetus becomes a human being upon birth...not conception.

Maybe you forgot, application for citizenship includes on the form a place to put date of birth...

LOL!!!

An unborn fetus, is not a citizen, nor does it have any rights of citizenship...

Come on jem, face it, your entire position is based on your belief that human beings begin at conception, something that the law does not hold as true...

Quote from jem:

you leftist idiots are so offended by the truth you start making up strawmen.

When did I or anyone on this thread make the argument a fetus is a citizen?

Go ahead be pro death? But tell the truth you are in favor of dismembering un born human beings crushing their brains and sucking out the parts with a vacuum.

Have the guts to stop posing strawman.

 

[ARealGannTrader]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:
Come on jem, face it, your entire position is based on your belief that human beings begin at conception, something that the law does not hold as true...

The law has been wrong many, many times in the past.

What is an organism that has a pulse and DNA of homo sapiens sapiens, if not human?

It is tragic, really, that women can murder out of convenience.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from ARealGannTrader:

The law has been wrong many, many times in the past.

What is an organism that has a pulse and DNA of homo sapiens sapiens, if not human?

It's a Teri Schiavo.