Another new low for Democrats

[Tsing Tao]

What is also important here is you’ve proven to rely on not knowing and now refusal to accept any information that refutes your assessments. Not only do you claim to not know the students intentions, which are obvious, you refuse the authority in the situation. This is why you are ignorant.

Hilarious, convenient interpretation of everything under the (what color was it again) sky in your world.

How can anyone know the students' intentions from the video posted? That's the problem with liberals. With liberals, everything must be that way. Stuff has to be the way you see it. Oh, the arrogance.

 

[Tsing Tao]

So the Hispanics in the ads are depicted as criminals. Never mind they aren’t even ms 13 gang members, theyre bario 18 members, and they’re from Guatemala, not the US. And you have acknowledged this type of rhetoric has a carryover effect on Americans of Hispanic ancestry. So you lost this one by your own admission.

Wrong yet again. I am stunned how often you are just plain wrong. Plugging your ears and regurgitating the same crap over and over is not how you get someone to see your point. I don't recall the ad saying where the illegal aliens were from. As for what gang, OK, if what you say is true and they had the wrong gang, then you sure showed them. The point of the ad, however, is still unchanged. Violent illegal aliens in gangs (whether MS13, Bario 18, or UsualName 55) are being protected by Sanctuary Cities by default, because those cities discourage the Federal Government from doing their job and addressing illegal immigration. Case closed!

The administration of the school said so much, but you are unwilling to acknowledge that. Even though you disagree, we have to acknowledge the authority in this situation, and you lose again.

Please show the part where the administration said this group of individuals was intent on hurting a specific group of kids in the room. Even if you could show such a preposterous statement, it would merely be conjecture. Like your entire argument in this thread.

I’m not sure “illegal immigration” is a lawful term subject to criminal prosecution but beingnin this country without the proper documentation in and of itself is not technically a crime, it’s a civil offense. So my statement is correct. Your counterpoint is valid in many and most cases, but not all. So you do have that.

I think my work here is done.

You did not say anything about being in the country without proper documentation. You said illegal immigration. If you meant something else, then you should have said something else. We are not telepathic, even though you claim to be (since you know what other intend to mean when they say "Build the Wall").

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Right wingers get it wrong too when they use the term “criminal” in terms of illegal aliens. It really is not a catch all phrase.

But, i’ll be provocative just to start some stuff...

Right wingers are going to have to legalize all the undocumented aliens (in good standing) to get tighter immigration and that wall. You guys can do it but are you willing to make that trade?

Too late to be provocative about old news like that.

Trump and the moderate republicans have already offered a deal on daca kids, provided that there is increased border protection to include the wall.

The dems are saying FU to the wall. In other words, in regard to the republicans agreeing on the daca issue, they are making it abundantly clear that they will not take Yes for answer.

This has all been pretty well discussed. The clock is ticking on that six month extension for DACA kids that Trump gave so that congress would have time to take action. No one is going to be talking about immigration while tax cuts and Obamacare are on the table because congress does not walk and chew gum at the same time- or even do one thing at a time. So it will be March before you know it and everything will be a great big scary daca crisis because Trump will not agree to anything without a wall or some progress in that direction. Fine, let the dems go into midterms watching daca kids being deported because they would not toss him a bone on the wall. Trump will still be around after the midterms.

 

[UsualName]

Wrong yet again. I am stunned how often you are just plain wrong. Plugging your ears and regurgitating the same crap over and over is not how you get someone to see your point. I don't recall the ad saying where the illegal aliens were from. As for what gang, OK, if what you say is true and they had the wrong gang, then you sure showed them. The point of the ad, however, is still unchanged. Violent illegal aliens in gangs (whether MS13, Bario 18, or UsualName 55) are being protected by Sanctuary Cities by default, because those cities discourage the Federal Government from doing their job and addressing illegal immigration. Case closed!



Please show the part where the administration said this group of individuals was intent on hurting a specific group of kids in the room. Even if you could show such a preposterous statement, it would merely be conjecture. Like your entire argument in this thread.



You did not say anything about being in the country without proper documentation. You said illegal immigration. If you meant something else, then you should have said something else. We are not telepathic, even though you claim to be (since you know what other intend to mean when they say "Build the Wall").

Geez, look buddy, the problem with you is you are arguing against an obviously valid point, that these ms 13 ads have a negative impact on Hispanics. My point is true. You have to be brain dead to not understand that.

What you should be arguing is that the larger issues of illegal immigration and gang activity associated with that are important and should not be stifled because of the impact it has on the Hispanic population. That would be true too.

The real debate is what crosses the line.

You can argue until your “ liddle” fingers are nubs, but your actual debating skills are garbage. You are too stuck on trying to pick apart things that are actually true and ignore the actual topic. This is what it is pointless with you and this argument has gone on for so long.

You think you’re right but you’re defending an invalid point. Move on.

 

[MoneyMatthew]

Right wingers get it wrong too when they use the term “criminal” in terms of illegal aliens. It really is not a catch all phrase.

They commit crimes beyond just coming here illegally. It is not discussed here on this message board often but many illegal immigrants are guilty of identity theft.

Sometimes it is more of a "victim-less crime" where a legal family member will allow an illegal alien family member to use their Social Security Number. The majority use stolen identities via stolen Social Security Numbers. These SS numbers are sometimes a packaged deal with the smuggler coyotes other times they are obtained after arrival either through purchasing it from a dealer or through direct theft. The purchasing of stolen Social Security numbers is more common. There are street vendors in LA that have stands set up where you can walk up and buy this info.

Here is an excerpt from a 2009 study at the Centers for Immigration Studies, most immigrants from South America are technically "Illegal but Documented".

The findings include:

• Illegal immigrants are not “undocumented.” They have fraudulent documents such as counterfeit Social Security cards, forged drivers licenses, fake “green cards,” and phony birth certificates. Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment.
• Most (98 percent) Social Security number (SSN) thieves use their own names with stolen numbers. The federal E-Verify program, now mandated in only 14 states, can detect this fraud. Universal, mandatory use of E-Verify would curb this and stop virtually 100 percent of child identity theft.
• Illegal immigration and high levels of identity theft go hand-in-hand. States with the most illegal immigration also have high levels of job-related identity theft. In Arizona, 33 percent or all identity theft is job-related (as opposed to identity theft motivated simply by profit). In Texas it is 27 percent; in New Mexico, 23 percent; in Colorado, 22 percent; California, 20 percent; and in Nevada, 16 percent. Eight of the 10 states with the highest percentage of illegal aliens in their total population are among the top 10 states in identity theft (Arizona, California, Florida, Texas, Nevada, New York, Georgia, and Colorado).
• Children are prime targets. In Arizona, it is estimated that over one million children are victims of identity theft. In Utah, 1,626 companies were found to be paying wages to the SSNs of children on public assistance under the age of 13. These individuals suffer very real and very serious consequences in their lives.
• Illegal aliens commit felonies in order to get jobs. Illegal aliens who use fraudulent documents, perjure themselves on I-9 forms, and commit identity theft in order to get jobs are committing serious offenses and are not “law abiding.”
• Illegally employed aliens send billions of dollars annually to their home countries, rather than spending it in the United States and helping stimulate the American economy. In October 2008 alone, $2.4 billion was transferred to Mexico.
• Tolerance of corruption erodes the rule of law. Corruption is a serious problem in most illegal aliens’ home countries. Allowing it to flourish here paves the way for additional criminal activity and increased corruption throughout society.
• Leaders support perpetrators and ignore victims. Political, civic, religious, business, education, and media leaders blame Americans for “forcing” illegal aliens to commit document fraud and identity theft. No similar concern is expressed for the American men, women, and children whose lives are destroyed in the process.
• The Social Security Administration and Internal Revenue Service facilitate illegal immigrant-driven identity theft. Both turn a blind eye to massive SSN fraud and take no action to stop it. The Social Security Administration assigns SSNs to new-born infants that are being used illegally. The IRS demands that victims pay taxes on wages earned by illegal aliens using their stolen SSNs, while taking no action to stop the identity theft.
• State and local governments need to adopt tougher laws to supplement federal efforts. The Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is targeting large document fraud rings and the most egregious employers, but their resources are limited and stretched across multiple priorities. In 2007, identity theft cases represented only 7 percent of the total ICE case load.
• Employers must do their part. They can ensure that they have a legal workforce by using a combination of the federal government’s E-Verify and Social Security Number Verification Service systems and by signing up for the federal government’s IMAGE program or privately conducted audits.

 

[UsualName]

Too late to be provocative about old news like that.

Trump and the moderate republicans have already offered a deal on daca kids, provided that there is increased border protection to include the wall.

The dems are saying FU to the wall. In other words, in regard to the republicans agreeing on the daca issue, they are making it abundantly clear that they will not take Yes for answer.

This has all been pretty well discussed. The clock is ticking on that six month extension for DACA kids that Trump gave so that congress would have time to take action. No one is going to be talking about immigration while tax cuts and Obamacare are on the table because congress does not walk and chew gum at the same time- or even do one thing at a time. So it will be March before you know it and everything will be a great big scary daca crisis because Trump will not agree to anything without a wall or some progress in that direction. Fine, let the dems go into midterms watching daca kids being deported because they would not toss him a bone on the wall. Trump will still be around after the midterms.

Blah. That won’t get you the wall. Can the republicans really endure DACA kids being pulled out of classes and deported? I don’t think so.

Trump has already signaled he will extend the extension too.

It’s deal for the wall or DACA kids stay and no wall.

 

[UsualName]

They commit crimes beyond just coming here illegally. It is not discussed here on this message board often but many illegal immigrants are guilty of identity theft.

Sometimes it is more of a "victim-less crime" where a legal family member will allow an illegal alien family member to use their Social Security Number. The majority use stolen identities via stolen Social Security Numbers. These SS numbers are sometimes a packaged deal with the smuggler coyotes other times they are obtained after arrival either through purchasing it from a dealer or through direct theft. The purchasing of stolen Social Security numbers is more common. There are street vendors in LA that have stands set up where you can walk up and buy this info.

Here is an excerpt from a 2009 study at the Centers for Immigration Studies, most immigrants from South America are technically "Illegal but Documented".

The findings include:

• Illegal immigrants are not “undocumented.” They have fraudulent documents such as counterfeit Social Security cards, forged drivers licenses, fake “green cards,” and phony birth certificates. Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment.
• Most (98 percent) Social Security number (SSN) thieves use their own names with stolen numbers. The federal E-Verify program, now mandated in only 14 states, can detect this fraud. Universal, mandatory use of E-Verify would curb this and stop virtually 100 percent of child identity theft.
• Illegal immigration and high levels of identity theft go hand-in-hand. States with the most illegal immigration also have high levels of job-related identity theft. In Arizona, 33 percent or all identity theft is job-related (as opposed to identity theft motivated simply by profit). In Texas it is 27 percent; in New Mexico, 23 percent; in Colorado, 22 percent; California, 20 percent; and in Nevada, 16 percent. Eight of the 10 states with the highest percentage of illegal aliens in their total population are among the top 10 states in identity theft (Arizona, California, Florida, Texas, Nevada, New York, Georgia, and Colorado).
• Children are prime targets. In Arizona, it is estimated that over one million children are victims of identity theft. In Utah, 1,626 companies were found to be paying wages to the SSNs of children on public assistance under the age of 13. These individuals suffer very real and very serious consequences in their lives.
• Illegal aliens commit felonies in order to get jobs. Illegal aliens who use fraudulent documents, perjure themselves on I-9 forms, and commit identity theft in order to get jobs are committing serious offenses and are not “law abiding.”
• Illegally employed aliens send billions of dollars annually to their home countries, rather than spending it in the United States and helping stimulate the American economy. In October 2008 alone, $2.4 billion was transferred to Mexico.
• Tolerance of corruption erodes the rule of law. Corruption is a serious problem in most illegal aliens’ home countries. Allowing it to flourish here paves the way for additional criminal activity and increased corruption throughout society.
• Leaders support perpetrators and ignore victims. Political, civic, religious, business, education, and media leaders blame Americans for “forcing” illegal aliens to commit document fraud and identity theft. No similar concern is expressed for the American men, women, and children whose lives are destroyed in the process.
• The Social Security Administration and Internal Revenue Service facilitate illegal immigrant-driven identity theft. Both turn a blind eye to massive SSN fraud and take no action to stop it. The Social Security Administration assigns SSNs to new-born infants that are being used illegally. The IRS demands that victims pay taxes on wages earned by illegal aliens using their stolen SSNs, while taking no action to stop the identity theft.
• State and local governments need to adopt tougher laws to supplement federal efforts. The Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is targeting large document fraud rings and the most egregious employers, but their resources are limited and stretched across multiple priorities. In 2007, identity theft cases represented only 7 percent of the total ICE case load.
• Employers must do their part. They can ensure that they have a legal workforce by using a combination of the federal government’s E-Verify and Social Security Number Verification Service systems and by signing up for the federal government’s IMAGE program or privately conducted audits.

No doubt about all of this.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Geez, look buddy, the problem with you is you are arguing against an obviously valid point, that these ms 13 ads have a negative impact on Hispanics. My point is true. You have to be brain dead to not understand that.

So we can't call out criminals because the racial profile of the criminal condemns the entire race?? Really? No more pointing out that gang members are doing illegal things! Not fair to the race that they belong to! What a joke.

What you should be arguing is that the larger issues of illegal immigration and gang activity associated with that are important and should not be stifled because of the impact it has on the Hispanic population. That would be true too.

I'm not arguing anything about illegal immigration. this whole thing began when you made this stupid comment:

What’s wrong, right wingers don’t like getting depicted as criminals? Imagine how Hispanics and Muslims feel.

...and then failed to show any evidence of ads depicting Hispanics and Muslims as criminals. You showed ads where criminals were depicted as criminals, and then made the leap to say it meant all members of the same race the criminal shared. Which is ridiculous.

You can argue until your “ liddle” fingers are nubs, but your actual debating skills are garbage. You are too stuck on trying to pick apart things that are actually true and ignore the actual topic. This is what it is pointless with you and this argument has gone on for so long.

I don't care about the topic. I care about the inconsistencies in your comments that you throw around as truth. If you were more concerned about the shit flowing from the orifice in the center of your face, we might have better conversation. But how can we discuss greater issues if you can't even admit you said something you never really meant in the first place? Am I to expect you'll somehow be more amiable to discussing serious topics? Oh sure.

You think you’re right but you’re defending an invalid point. Move on.

Why should I move on? This is shooting fish in a barrel here with you.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Well, I never used the word illegal so try again.

No, you said "Hispanics" which are both legal and illegal in this discussion.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Blah. That won’t get you the wall. Can the republicans really endure DACA kids being pulled out of classes and deported? I don’t think so.

Trump has already signaled he will extend the extension too.

It’s deal for the wall or DACA kids stay and no wall.

I don't want to replay this. There was a full discussion here which will hold me over for a while.

You are mixing and matching issues. My point was that you were not bringing up anything new which you thought would be "provocative." The discussion and the offers by the republicans are already past the point of agreeing to a daca settlement if there are improved security measures. Whether I agree with that or whether it will or will not happen is another issue.

I think we had this discussion before- although I get you confused with the roboposters- and I said that you may be feeling more confident than the daca kids but if you are in a position to assure them that everything is okay then go for it. Not surprisingly though, it is not all about how you feel.