Announcing Kinetick - fast market data. unfiltered.

Quote from DionysusToast:

That is somewhat of a mixed message. Whilst you say you don't challenge Zen Fire, you mention you have things that Zen Fire doesn't as selling points...

The person that told me about Kinetick is a Ninja Partner, it is Ninja that have asked him to test the Kinetic feed with Ninja. I then found this thread. It is the Ninja people that have told him this is aimed at Zen Fire users and that there have been some disputes between Zen Fire and Ninja... obviously I wouldn't expect you to comment on that.

It seems the major selling point is the 'unfiltered tick data' which will help mostly people using DOM/Time and Sales, although I can see how it could be claimed that all people that use tick charts will benefit from the addition of the missing ticks.I can also see how it can be claimed that missing a few ticks won't make much difference to anyone.

The pitch is that TS/esignal, Zen Fire et al have gaps in their tick data and only Kinetick can give you the whole deal. It would be good to see some evidence that this is the case. If tape readers are missing out on a tick or 2 a day, it makes little difference. If tape readers are missing out on thousands a day, then significant activity may be hidden.

The Ninja partner I discussed this with is a very profitable trader and a tape reader. He seems to be concerned about missing ticks but the missing ticks don't seem to be hurting his bottom line at all.

I think there needs to be more on offer than this 'missing tick' and the TRIN, TICK et al. It's not price competitive and it only appears to work with Ninja. So in terms of it replacing those feeds you mentioned without any real additional price competition, I don't see where you fit it UNLESS you are looking at the Ninja/Zenfire market but are keeping tight-lipped about it.
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I personally don’t see anything mixed about our message but so there is no confusion…

- NinjaTrader, LLC has a very large active user base
- Through this user base we have a demand for a low cost, high quality market data service
- Primary target market are users currently unhappy with their current market data service, prospects who need a market data service or users whose broker’s market data feed do not meet their requirements
- We decided to fill this gap since it made sense for our users and for NinjaTrader, LLC economically
- We introduced Kinetick which is a brand owned but separately marketed by NinjaTrader
- We chose TelventDTN as our technology partner for this endeavor
- The value proposition of this service is clearly stated at www.kinetick.com
- No one on my staff every would say that Kinetick is aimed at Zen-Fire users since it is not true and make no sense (refer to an earlier post of mine in this thread)
- Have this partner contact me directly and I would be happy to clear up any confusion
 
Fair comments Ray.

I've not done market research, so I can't see the gap you talk about. I have seen your site and to be honest (as a prospect), the value proposition is not absolutely clear to someone like me that uses Tradestation & Ninja. I like the concept of an 'elevator pitch' - if you can explain your business proposition to a stranger in an elevator between a few floors, then you have something people will understand. I don't really see it at the moment, even after looking at the site.

As a TS user and your data prices are on par with theirs (although TS are not offering the CME waiver). Similarly, you are on par with other data services, so there's no particular price advantage that I see.

Kinetick is tied to Ninja and that platform is nowhere near as strong as TS or eSignal. I think that many people use Ninja because of Zenfire being free and brokers supporting it. I could be wrong about this, it's just that the traders I know use Ninja/Zenfire because of price and reliability.

I think Ninja platform fees + Kinetick data pricing puts you in the same range as TS/eSignal in terms of platform + data fees. I just dont see the Ninja/Kinetick combo worth the same $$$ as it is not funcionally as strong.

I also think that this information about the missing ticks on other platforms is questionable and you may be over playing that card without something to back it up. Certainly if you are going to say that people other than Zenfire are missing ticks, then you should back statements up with a tad more information. For example, is the ES on eSignal missing ticks all the time or just when the volume is at an extreme?

I dont mean to come across as overly critical. Certainly I had expectations of what this service would be and it seems it's not what I'm looking for.

Good luck with it though !
 
DionysusToast,

I will not comment on your "opinion" since it is yours but allow me to respond to your comment about price.

Here is one quick example...

eSignal w NinjaTrader - $125 per month (200 symbols)
Kinetick w NinjaTrader - $70 per month (200 symbols)

eSignal w NinjaTrader - $175 per month (500 symbols)
Kinetick w NinjaTrader - $80 per month (500 symbols)

Looks a lot less expensive to me!
 
Quick update!

Yesterday, I went live with Kinetick. The forex data appears to be a bit superior to BarChart in the quality of reported "Bid/Ask". One interesting observation is the volume figures on the e-mini S&P seem spot-on v. BarChart Why? I don't know. It should not be a difference In the overnight hours 2a to 4a I could clearly see a noticeable spike in volume @4:30a v. what I have seen with BarChart. Maybe it's here in the quiet hours where the "unfiltered" data clearly shows it's advantage.

So far no crazy "bad ticks" from the "unfiltered" data. I never was all that happy in the past with e-signal and I thought BarChart did a fair job at a reasonable price, but price discovery (forex), accurate volume (e-mini) and speed are critical. To me at least initially, Kinetick looks good and warrants a slight bump in cost from what I was paying.

One last note on the volume. With BarChart throughout the trading day I frequently had to "reload historical data" for a clean display of volume on the e-mini S&P. I have not had to do this once with Kinetick, and this includes the overnight session. I am truly surprised at the quality of reported volume on a 1min S&P chart.
 
Quote from DionysusToast:

Kinetick is tied to Ninja and that platform is nowhere near as strong as TS or eSignal. I think that many people use Ninja because of Zenfire being free and brokers supporting it. I could be wrong about this, it's just that the traders I know use Ninja/Zenfire because of price and reliability.
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A lot of people miss this... NinjaTrader is incredibly versatile.

1) Connect to a variety of brokers (and their order routing).
2) Connect to a wide variety of data feeds.

If you want to switch a broker, then switch a broker. If you want to switch a data feed, then switch a data feed.

On this point alone, NinjaTrader stands out.

For me personally, I appreciate that I can develop my indicators in C# on NinjaTrader, without using proprietary scripting languages. To me, NinjaTrader is a stronger platform than TradeStation.

Of course, everybody's mileage may vary.
 
Quote from spz_trader:

Quick update!

Yesterday, I went live with Kinetick. The forex data appears to be a bit superior to BarChart in the quality of reported "Bid/Ask". One interesting observation is the volume figures on the e-mini S&P seem spot-on v. BarChart Why? I don't know. It should not be a difference In the overnight hours 2a to 4a I could clearly see a noticeable spike in volume @4:30a v. what I have seen with BarChart. Maybe it's here in the quiet hours where the "unfiltered" data clearly shows it's advantage.

So far no crazy "bad ticks" from the "unfiltered" data. I never was all that happy in the past with e-signal and I thought BarChart did a fair job at a reasonable price, but price discovery (forex), accurate volume (e-mini) and speed are critical. To me at least initially, Kinetick looks good and warrants a slight bump in cost from what I was paying.

One last note on the volume. With BarChart throughout the trading day I frequently had to "reload historical data" for a clean display of volume on the e-mini S&P. I have not had to do this once with Kinetick, and this includes the overnight session. I am truly surprised at the quality of reported volume on a 1min S&P chart.
More...

Awesome! Good to see that you like Kinetick, so far.
 
dont understand why people have zen fire. zen fire is only a marketing name and is based on rithimic technology. that said, people who have zen fire especially free ninja are paying higher commission based on name only. how pity
 
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