"And I've always said if you don't respect the man, respect the position." - Lewis (D)

Tsing Tao said:
But as to "unfairly" winning, I consider the leak from Wikileaks similar to Mitt Romney's "47%" speech leak. I was pissed Romney lost to Obama, and that leak was probably one of the main reasons, but I never considered it "unfair".
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Hacking allegedly orchestrated by a sovereign power and then selectively disseminated is rather more malignant than the 47% thing.
 
Frederick Foresight said:
Hacking allegedly orchestrated by a sovereign power and then selectively disseminated is rather more malignant than the 47% thing.
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But the information released was far worse and far more numerous in the Podesta situation. Instead of just focusing on fixing the way is was obtained, Democrats would be better off trying to fix the issues it revealed, and then they'd not have to worry about hackers in the first place.
 
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Tsing Tao said:
But the information released was far worse and far more numerous in the Podesta situation. Instead of just focusing on fixing the way is was obtained, Democrats would be better off trying to fix the issues it revealed, and then they'd not have to worry about hackers in the first place.
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You're very high-minded and have lofty ideals when it comes to the other guy. But can you honestly imagine what kind of internal communications Trump, Bannon, Ailes and all the other no-goodniks must have had and are having right now? We'll probably never know; Putin apparently didn't order to have them hacked.
 
Frederick Foresight said:
You're very high-minded and have lofty ideals when it comes to the other guy. But can you honestly imagine what kind of internal communications Trump, Bannon, Ailes and all the other no-goodniks must have had and are having right now? We'll probably never know; Putin apparently didn't order to have them hacked.
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Possibly, as you say we will never know. But the left and the media (same thing, really), as well as Trump's own party pulled out all stops to get every scrap of dirt on Trump (which they did well, too) and none of it stuck. If you guys had a better candidate - if it were Bernie, for example, then Trump might have been sunk by the whole "Grab 'em by the pussy" scandal or any one of a dozen others.

I'm not sure I believe there was any stone unturned in the quest to de-legitimize Trump.
 
Tsing Tao said:
pulled out all stops to get every scrap of dirt on Trump (which they did well, too) and none of it stuck.
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All kidding aside, exposing dirt only works on those who are repelled by it. I'd say that a large contingent of Trump supporters are oblivious to it, and that it will likely be at their peril as well as everyone else's. I agree that Clinton was not a perfect candidate, but she was a good one and far, far better than Trump. At least among people with standards. And that is my opinion.
 
You could not be more wrong. Foolish Fred. Ironically wikileaks proves Podesta knew the problem.



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Frederick Foresight said:
All kidding aside, exposing dirt only works on those who are repelled by it. I'd say that a large contingent of Trump supporters are oblivious to it, and that it will likely be at their peril as well as everyone else's. I agree that Clinton was not a perfect candidate, but she was a good one and far, far better than Trump. At least among people with standards. And that is my opinion.
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Frederick Foresight said:
All kidding aside, exposing dirt only works on those who are repelled by it. I'd say that a large contingent of Trump supporters are oblivious to it, and that it will likely be at their peril as well as everyone else's. I agree that Clinton was not a perfect candidate, but she was a good one and far, far better than Trump. At least among people with standards. And that is my opinion.
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If you guys had just gone with Bernie, things would probably have been different. I know my vote would have been different.
 
Tsing Tao said:
If you guys had just gone with Bernie, things would probably have been different. I know my vote would have been different.
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In retrospect, you might be right. But who could have foreseen first the (alleged) Russian hacks and then Comey putting his thumb on the scale? Regardless, Clinton was better qualified for the job than Bernie, much as I like him. If you were to peer through your microscope at Trump's faults and shortcomings with half the intensity that you apply to Clinton's, you would likely find yourself screaming and running for the exit.
 
Frederick Foresight said:
In retrospect, you might be right. But who could have foreseen first the (alleged) Russian hacks and then Comey putting his thumb on the scale? Regardless, Clinton was better qualified for the job than Bernie, much as I like him. If you were to peer through your microscope at Trump's faults and shortcomings with half the intensity that you apply to Clinton's, you would likely find yourself screaming and running for the exit.
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Don't presume that I haven't put Trump under the microscope with equal weighting. It's just that the values that you and I hold dear are so starkly different, and our view on what needs to change so vastly opposite that when I wake screaming from a nightmare, it's one where Clinton is President. This doesn't mean that I don't have my apprehension about Trump (as I have said many times). But Clinton would have been far worse - in my opinion.
 
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