Have you been to China?
And How Does BYD Beat Tesla Cars Sales in China?
- Thread starter VicBee
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I'm not disputing that China's a hellscape, just the notion that secularism somehow led them there.
It's not secularism and your examples are far off the mark. What you refer as secularism in Europe (the western world) is a result of humanist philosophy which, essentially, removed religious symbolisms from morals and values that came bundled with christianity.
What communism did in China (and Russia) was to try to eradicate religious morals and values, and replaced them with party loyalty. Many generations born during the communist era, whose parents did not teach such values and morals, insisting instead on promulgating reverence to the leader and the party (long before alternative media was available to all)... that's what I'm talking about.
Sounds like the blame is on a different religion (call it Maoism or Leninism), not secularism.
Western moral values which don't differ all that much from the rest of the world or Hammurabi 4k yrs ago can be explained by evolutionary biology, religion just sprinkles some rationale on it.
Killing, assault, theft, property/territory, adultery/mating, these are things your run of the mill common house cat will fight over.
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Who's blaming? Maoism or Leninism are not religions, they're enforced leader idolatry.
Evolutionary biology driver of human morality? That's an interesting angle .. Can't wait to read the book.
Yes, humans are far simpler than we make ourselves to be, although much efforts have been expanded to figure out how to prevent killing, theft, adultery, etc... Laws, discipline, devine intervention, work continuously to fill one's days are all tools used to hold humans accountable for their actions in society. But humans often fail or refuse to abide by norms.
potato potato. You think the reformation, colonialism/iconoclasm, the crusades, the inquisition were not enforced idolatry?
I'd say start with "The Grand Design" by Stephen Hawking. He goes into great detail of how the existence of the universe does not require the existence of a god. Morality/code of law is just an extension of that. As observed in other animals, if an action causes stress/anguish, we outlaw it or shun it.....rinse and repeat for a few thousand years.
Indeed, religion revealed itself when it had the ear of power and business. Historical lesson just as valid today. It lead France to a clear separation of church and state, not the fuzzy one adopted in America.
We are in the same page intellectually when it comes to the unnecessary cloak of religion to life and the universe. My point was that when confronted with a people whose moral and ethical values appeared so different from mine, I tried to make sense of it.