An Obama Spending Spree? Hardly

[Max E.]

Ok, lets turn it around and it examine it from a Bush-Obama standpoint.

Bush - Afghanistan, would have happened either way, completely bipartisan

Bush - Iraq, lets attribute all that to him

Bush Medicare Part D - Obama, Obamacare, three times the cost

Bush Bush taxcuts - Obama chose to renew them, so exact same policy, Obama has also added new taxcuts like the payroll taxcuts.....

Bush Tarp - Obama Stimulus, TARP money coming back, Stimulus all up in smoke

Where is this big discrepancy in the spending between the 2???

Basically when you break it down, Bush brought us Iraq, and Medicare Part D, Obama brought us Stimulus and Obamacare, everything else is a wash.

Quote from epiktetos:

That's why I said COMPARED to Bush and Reagan he is a fiscal conservative, by himself Obama is not a fiscal Conservative.

Also, as I have asked you earlier, I can list some really big spending items under Bush, what big spending items has Obama signed that are increasing the debt and deficit. There is the stimulus but what else? Comparing Obama to Bush who signed multiple budget busting bills is kind of disingenuous. Infact, without a recession that he inherited, there won't have been any big increases in spending if one simply looks at his fiscal record.

 

[epiktetos]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Jan. 12, 2009, Obama asked Bush to release the remaining TARP funds for Obama to spend as soon as he took office. By Oct. 1, Obama had spent another $200 billion in TARP money. That, too, gets credited to Bush, according to the creative accounting of Rex Nutting.

This is obviously false if you look at the outlays recorded by the CBO, the outlays were 150 billion in 2009 and were already part of the federal deficit.

Look up page 24 here - http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/01-31-2012_Outlook.pdf

 

[epiktetos]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Ok, lets turn it around and it examine it from a Bush-Obama standpoint.

Bush - Afghanistan, would have happened either way, completely bipartisan

Bush - Iraq, lets attribute all that to him

Bush Medicare Part D - Obama, Obamacare, three times the cost

Bush Bush taxcuts - Obama chose to renew them, so exact same policy, Obama has also added new taxcuts like the payroll taxcuts.....

Bush Tarp - Obama Stimulus, TARP money coming back, Stimulus all up in smoke

Where is this big discrepancy in the spending between the 2??? :confused"

First two I agree.

But you cannot honestly compare Medicare Part D with Obamacare, Medicare Part D was COMPLETELY unpaid for, it's original cost was 900 billion dollar that directly added to the deficit. Obamacare is paid for whatever the costs may be, even if you don't agree that it reduces the deficit, there is evidence that it atleast covers it costs.

Regarding Bush tax cuts, you are ignoring the events that led to their extension - Republicans threatened filibuster of ALL legislation until the Bush tax cuts were completely extended.

Regarding stimulus, I already covered that, it is indeed the only big spending item under Obama.

 

[Max E.]

LOL, well the stimulus bill alone cost as much as medicare part D so how are these 2 uneven? Even if i was to concede Obamacare wont add to the deficit which is ludicrous, these 2 end up back at even.....

Quote from epiktetos:

First two I agree.

But you cannot honestly compare Medicare Part D with Obamacare, Medicare Part D was COMPLETELY unpaid for, it's original cost was 900 billion dollar that directly added to the deficit. Obamacare is paid for whatever the costs may be, even if you don't agree that it reduces the deficit, there is evidence that it atleast covers it costs.

Regarding stimulus, I already covered that, it is indeed the only big spending item under Obama.

 

[epiktetos]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

LOL, well the stimulus bill alone cost as much as medicare part D so how are these 2 uneven? Even if i was to concede Obamacare wont add to the deficit which is ludicrous, these 2 end up back at even.....

So you are going back to stimulus again which is exactly my point. You have to compare every Bush spending item with the stimulus to show that Obama is a big spender. Infact comparing the temporary stimulus (over 40% of which was tax cuts that couldn't be attributed as spending in the first place) with a mandatory program that contributes to the debt and deficits for years to come (especially with increase in baby boomers and healthcare costs) is a very poor example to show similiarties between Obama and Bush.

 

[Max E.]

This is why its almost pointless debating a die hard Obama supporter, i have given all kinds of concessions on this, including a ridiculous claim that Obamacare wont add to the deficit.... and now you are trying to say the stimulus should not be counted?

K fine, I will give you the stimulus for arguments sake and say that it should not be counted against Obama, so now what are we left with?

Obama maybe contributed 100 billion less per year to the deficit then Bush? When you get rid of both the Stimulus, and we make the assumption that Obamacare is deficit neutral, So where does that Put Obama?

That makes Obama 100 billion per year better then the most profligate spender in history, when we are running 1.3 trillion dollar deficits.... congratulations.

Quote from epiktetos:

So you are going back to stimulus again which is exactly my point. You have to compare every Bush spending item with the stimulus to show that Obama is a big spender. Infact comparing the temporary stimulus (over 40% of which was tax cuts that couldn't be attributed as spending in the first place) with a mandatory program that contributes to the debt and deficits for years to come (especially with increase in baby boomers and healthcare costs) is a very poor example to show similiarties between Obama and Bush.

 

[Max E.]

Btw Medicare Part D only Cost 410 billion over 10 years, not 900 billion as you stated.....

The Medicare prescription-drug benefit is costing taxpayers a lot, but less than expected. The Congressional Budget Office's original 10-year price tag was $640 billion over 10 years; it's now down by a third to $410 billion. The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services was off by even more.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126282080941818727.html

Quote from epiktetos:

First two I agree.

But you cannot honestly compare Medicare Part D with Obamacare, Medicare Part D was COMPLETELY unpaid for, it's original cost was 900 billion dollar that directly added to the deficit.

 

[epiktetos]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

This is why its almost pointless debating a die hard Obama supporter, i have given all kinds of concessions on this, including a ridiculous claim that Obamacare wont add to the deficit.... and now you are trying to say the stimulus should not be counted?

First, you never ONCE backed up the claim that Obamacare adds to the deficit, you quoted an article that talked about COSTS and had nothing to do with deficits.

Second, I have repeatedly acknowledged that stimulus was Obama's one big spending bill. Now you want to compare Medicare Part D with an original price tag of 900 bill with the stimulus which had a price tag of 800 billion dollars. Problem with that is that you can't do that since stimulus was 40% tax cuts which doesn't fall under spending in the first place. S

Obama maybe contributed 100 billion less per year to the deficit then Bush? When you get rid of both the Stimulus, and we make the assumption that Obamacare is deficit neutral, So where does that Put Obama?

That makes Obama 100 billion per year better then the most profligate spender in history, when we are running 1.3 trillion dollar deficits.... congratulations.

Now since we are back to talking deficits again - deficits were in the region of 500 billion dollars before the recession hit. Now Obama automatically reduces spending by 100 billion, gets rid of Medicare Part D (which he is under Obamacare) reduces more spending by 100 billion, doesn't get involved in another land invasion which is another 100 billion dollars, gets rid of the Bush tax cuts for the top earners which is another 50 billion dollars. That's very very close to balancing the budgets especially if you look at the reduction in military spending under dual trigger cuts that came from the super committee failure.

 

[epiktetos]

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Btw Medicare Part D only Cost 410 billion over 10 years, not 900 billion as you stated.....

The Medicare prescription-drug benefit is costing taxpayers a lot, but less than expected. The Congressional Budget Office's original 10-year price tag was $640 billion over 10 years; it's now down by a third to $410 billion. The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services was off by even more.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126282080941818727.html

That's why I said the original cost (at the time of passing which legislators relied on then and still passed it) were much higher including debt servicing costs.

"Projected net expenditures from 2009 through 2018 are estimated to be $727.3 billion"

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2009.pdf

 

[Max E.]

WTF does it matter what the initial assumption was???!? The final price tag came to 410 billion that was the ACTUAL COST.

Secondly i posted the CBO's actual numbers which show the net cost will be 1.25 trillion over 8 years which means a 10 year projection will easily have it at 1.5. Keep in mind the fact that this pricetag has already doubled from the original numbers Obama and company gave, so it will likely come in much higher once it is implemented.

Do you not understand how ridiculous your argument that Obamacare will save us money is? Tell me something just humour me for one second. Answer 1 simple question.

Do you actually believe the cost of healthcare is going to go DOWN drastically once the government starts subsidizing people, and we add 50 million new people to the roles?

Quote from epiktetos:

First, you never ONCE backed up the claim that Obamacare adds to the deficit, you quoted an article that talked about COSTS and had nothing to do with deficits.

Second, I have repeatedly acknowledged that stimulus was Obama's one big spending bill. Now you want to compare Medicare Part D with an original price tag of 900 bill with the stimulus which had a price tag of 800 billion dollars. Problem with that is that you can't do that since stimulus was 40% tax cuts which doesn't fall under spending in the first place. S