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An indicator that gives the S&R?
- Thread starter Traber
- Start date
Quote from hypostomus:
Ah, dear Jack, I know you can't see this because you have me on ignore, but how do you explain those frequent instances where a limit order wall builds up and repels boarders for a while, but those pesky market order traders overwhelm it to move the market against that wall? The DOM is like everything else in the market: it works when it works, and doesn't when it doesn't. Why can't you look past your OWN orthodoxy and discover what WORKS?
how dare you, jack and his monkeys makes 3x the intraday range. beat that.
Quote from hypostomus:
Ah, dear Jack, I know you can't see this because you have me on ignore, but how do you explain those frequent instances where a limit order wall builds up and repels boarders for a while, but those pesky market order traders overwhelm it to move the market against that wall?
this is two turns (reverses) that high velocity traders would not hold through just to continue the trade.The period you refer to as "for a while" is usually significant enough to trade as either a nondominant, internal formation, of temporary reversion over powering a trending.
All trading opposite what is showing on the DOM is market orders except for the majority of changes in the DOM which are part of the four games played which involve pulling and adding orders either on BBid/BAsk or nearby.
By viewing these games with reference to the various place holder values and looking at the T&S, also arranged to view these segments, you can how the majority of changes work on the DOM as compared to the market orders facing the listed orders on the DOM.
The DOM is like everything else in the market: it works when it works, and doesn't when it doesn't. Why can't you look past your OWN orthodoxy and discover what WORKS?
I prefer pool extraction for a multitude of reasons. This doesn't mean I do not look at other things. I do. As the Quant era began to come to a close (06/06), I began to look at it's successor. Google: vultures. There aren't any new boxes in the heirarchy of Harris in T&E, but there are groups of people who are significant to face..
My interests are iterative refinement and having a template that is a basic model that can be shaped for application in various types of markets; that is going from the general to the specific with out using induction. The autonomous nature of Markets, trading models and trading platforms is a ratonale for uncontaminating discovery using the SM.
The DOM is just one of 5 to 7 volume based elements that allow for data sets to be taken rather precisely. Like evry degree of freedom developed (I use about 70), there is a requirement to use what is necessary and sufficient like anything else in a time series. The DOM is a valuable contributor for making high velocity money in market operations. The market is in charge of many things in the trader/market partnership; I obey what the market requires me to do. No one is smartr than the markets; the basic deal is to extract what the market offers.
I stepped well out of the CW box early on. Entry/exit trading odes not do pool extraction. It's nice out here and the CW doesn't do a very good job, as a basis, for assessing or critiquing the template.
Playing the clown role, or what you prefer to call it, is your choice. I have spent my career in other pursuits and a lot of them blended into the trading modelling, design and development, and operations. Nowadays, computers have come to be as powerful as needed to process any models and development and they are especially good at enabling a trader to take what the market offers.
I have spent what time I did here discussing how a person can purposefully learn to become and expert in a partnership with the markets. This is a mind building process, primarily. It is a good idea to use the potential of the mind to be equipped. becoming skilled to the point of trading with sports memory is one of the possible outcomes for a dilligent person. It was for me. I chose to not keep it to myself because it is very evident that no single person or method can affect the markets (there are no examples up to this point, for example).
So our paths will not be crossing and the template (paradigm) I use is not part of the CW. You make me wrong for not meeting your standard; that is cool. I had to learn to not care if a person would not consider to become wealthy using what is possible or specifically what I do. Do your thing.
There are many variations of pivots, but none of them have proven to consistently produce a working system for profit.Quote from Traber:
For ES and YM markets is there an indicator that gives the S&R?
The market reveals itself to those who can connect with it on a level beyond indicators, charts, and DOM. If it sounds esoteric, it is.
Om mani padme hum.
Quote from silvermotion:
how dare you, jack and his monkeys makes 3x the intraday range. beat that.
the value is 3x the daily range (H-L).
Many methods trade above this nominal range.
There are trading limits for manual trading and/or automated model trading.
The daily range is a good standard, simply because of the seasonally and monthly changes in market activity.
To do diligence on various approaches and methods, it is necessary to use what the market offers to understand the method's application to the market.
Look at yourself and your trading. What is the biggest single factor for you that limits you? It is thye time you spend on the sidelines as the market offers profits.
Look further into your vantagepoint and views. You spend time when you are in the market on the wrong side of the market. You have drawdowns, for example, after you have entered made some profits, held through their being given up as the market goes against you and then continues to take you to your stop and out of the market with a loss. Stops lock in losses and you do that.
Every day you see the daily range develop by stages. You are not making this range expansion nor do you make money on the retrace to the MLR line or past it when the underdamped price goes beyond the MLR. All of these offerings of the market you see traded by others. They are there; traders are trading.
Fear is a terrible thing as a primary mode to be conflicted with as you observe others making money.
trading manually is limited by the human capabilities. after a system is operating inside human capability, there is a lot more mney to be extracted. the capacitiy of markets is huge and it is possible to see those who are big traders doing their thing. Look at the 50+ level on the ES T&S. It hardly ever stops moving as price goes up and down in the daily range. the range is traversed over and over during the day in terms of price movement. many traders are not on the sidelines most of the day; they are comfortable and confident being in the market for each profit segment you see happening all day long.
you aren't going to change; that is simply the way it turned out for you. you chose to get to where you would up. When you leave trading; it will just be like is has been for the majority of people who stepped into this world for a moment to trade a contrct or two for a while.
Look at hypostomuoose and why he only trades the YM as a hobby. It is like going to the movies for him. He pays admission and sees the show and goes back to his job and family.
the more money velocity a trader has the less likely he is to be to share his performance levels. you will be surprised to know that there are a lot of people you could meet who exceeed the 3X daily range (H-L). It is up to them if they want to meet you, however.
Subject to O BID WITH.Quote from jack hershey:
For very short term and in the Present, the most precise S is the wall on the DOM bid and, correspondingly, the R is the wall on the DOM ask.
This would be for very high money velocity(vis a vis, taking profit segments continually) trading.
One caveat is that if a wall is not present on the DOM, the market is exhibiting no resversion characterisitcs so, in effect, there is no corresponding R or S in the given direction (restricted to the definitions of price near BBid and BAsk according to Larry Harris in "Trading and Exchanges").
Quote from jack hershey:
For very short term and in the Present, the most precise S is the wall on the DOM bid and, correspondingly, the R is the wall on the DOM ask.
This would be for very high money velocity(vis a vis, taking profit segments continually) trading.
One caveat is that if a wall is not present on the DOM, the market is exhibiting no resversion characterisitcs so, in effect, there is no corresponding R or S in the given direction (restricted to the definitions of price near BBid and BAsk according to Larry Harris in "Trading and Exchanges").
I'm sorry for the noob question. But what do you exactly mean by the wall?
Quote from Traber:
Thanks for all the replies and good info
âGood infoâ is in the eye of the beholder I supposeâ¦â¦â¦.
I would suggest rather than trying to find a magical S/R indicator that possesses mystical powers and is supposedly instrument specific, instead research and gather an in-depth comprehension of what occurrences or series of events take place between buyers and sellers within the market activity that create dynamic zones of confluence.
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Quote from Traber:
what do you exactly mean by the wall?
Wall = Largest Number of Contracts on the Bid and on the Ask side of the DOM (Depth of Market). See attached.
- Spydertrader
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