An American Hero

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

"Sitting on your ass and refusing to work just doesn't cut it as 'heroism' in my book."

Yes, you have your own book which you read and write in.

Ali was attacked for refusing military induction, called every name in the book.

Some continue to view him that way, others view his refusal to fight in the Vietnam war as heroic.

Some view his boxing as barbaric, other view his boxing skills and championships as heroic.

Some viewed his willingness to speak his mind in the 60's as just some "loud mouthed "nigger" who should keep his damn mouth shut" and others viewed him as a he
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There is no similarity between Ali and the young Lt. Ali was a brave man. He told the government to go fuck themselves, didn't run off to Canada, didn't do anything but speak his mind. He took the punishment for that. I can respect him for that. The Lt. in question played a completely different game. He volunteered, took the oath, took the "easy" money and now that it's time to man up, he has chosen to be a political ideologue. This punk wouldn't make a pimple on Ali's ass.
 
Quote from CaptainObvious:

There is no similarity between Ali and the young Lt. Ali was a brave man. He told the government to go fuck themselves, didn't run off to Canada, didn't do anything but speak his mind. He took the punishment for that. I can respect him for that. The Lt. in question played a completely different game. He volunteered, took the oath, took the "easy" money and now that it's time to man up, he has chosen to be a political ideologue. This punk wouldn't make a pimple on Ali's ass.

Exactly. Ali's stance cost him three years of his career and millions in earnings. Not to mention his opposition to Vietnam came a year before public sentiment had blossomed against the war.

I know I piss off zhivodka every time I mention this but for thirty years (72-2003) "service" in the U.S. Armed Forces generally meant decent pay, free education, fantastic benefits, world travel, early retirement, and no fighting. Sort of like being a policeman in Scarsdale or Kenilworth.

How would you feel if a cop said "drug laws are illegal on libertarian grounds so I refuse to bust this meth lab or crack house"? RM don't answer this question. :D :D
 
Quote from 4re:


OldTrader: what group were you with? I was with 1st SOCOM at Ft Bragg

I was with the 5th Special Forces Group while they were still in Vietnam in 1967-1968.

OldTrader
 
In your moated world, 6 years in prison is nothing...

He does, however, face one count of "missing troop movement" and four counts of "conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman." If convicted, he faces up to six years in prison.

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Exactly. Ali's stance cost him three years of his career and millions in earnings. Not to mention his opposition to Vietnam came a year before public sentiment had blossomed against the war.

I know I piss off zhivodka every time I mention this but for thirty years (72-2003) "service" in the U.S. Armed Forces generally meant decent pay, free education, fantastic benefits, world travel, early retirement, and no fighting. Sort of like being a policeman in Scarsdale or Kenilworth.

How would you feel if a cop said "drug laws are illegal on libertarian grounds so I refuse to bust this meth lab or crack house"? RM don't answer this question. :D :D
 
Quote from OldTrader:

I was with the 5th Special Forces Group while they were still in Vietnam in 1967-1968.

OldTrader

Were you around to know Major (at that time) James Rowe. He escaped from the VC POW camp in 68. Just curious because he was my CO when I was at the JFK SPEC WAR Center. I bet you know that place, don't you.
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:

I'm not sure why dozens of posts went by without anyone pointing this out, but do you know <b>what kinds of acts the Nuremberg war criminals were accused of committing?</b> None of them were charged with the simple act of 'being deployed to occupied territory', I can assure you.

You know how Lt. Watada <b>could</b> have made himself into a hero? By deploying to Iraq as ordered and carefully supervising the troops under his command, making sure his men respect the human rights of all the locals they come into contact with, while working hard out in the field to avert the next Haditha massacre from taking place.

Now <b>that</b> would have been heroic. Heroism takes hard work. Sitting on your ass and refusing to work just doesn't cut it as 'heroism' in my book.

Very well said. The ex- Lt. had an obligation to his troopers, as well as the Army and country. He took the oath.

And by the way, when the enemy is here , it's kinda late. No?
 
Quote from 4re:

Were you around to know Major (at that time) James Rowe. He escaped from the VC POW camp in 68. Just curious because he was my CO when I was at the JFK SPEC WAR Center. I bet you know that place, don't you.

Didn't personally know Major Rowe. I was an NCO so officers were not typically part of my acquaintance. LOL. Well aware of JFK Warfare Center at Bragg. Although I have to tell you, I don't recall that we had any classes there (it's been 40 years). If we did, it wasn't many. I think that was more a place the officers went. Our training was more typically in the field.

OldTrader
 
Quote from OldTrader:

Didn't personally know Major Rowe. I was an NCO so officers were not typically part of my acquaintance. LOL. Well aware of JFK Warfare Center at Bragg. Although I have to tell you, I don't recall that we had any classes there (it's been 40 years). If we did, it wasn't many. I think that was more a place the officers went. Our training was more typically in the field.

OldTrader

I was an NCO as well. Several years after you though. I was there with the 82nd in 1986 and moved to SOCOM in 88. I got out right after Desert Storm. Sure had some fun on Bragg Blvd though.

Question: if you were scared to fight like this Watatada guy is would have signed up to be an Infantry Officer? The guy should have picked a non operational field. Then he would have had no problem with the war.
 
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