AMP Account balances exceeding 100K, double day trade margin

[SabreMan]

@AMP_Global

AMP Futures margin website page has small print:

"DayTrading margins are twice the displayed amount for account balances exceeding $100K"

https://www.ampfutures.com/trading-info/margins/

Using example of NQ which has day trade margin of $1000 per contract on that webpage.

Lets say i open an account with AMP and deposit $102K.

A. Does this mean i can only buy 51 contracts (because my account is >100K, margin required from me is now $2000 per NQ)

B. Or does it mean i can buy 101 contracts (100 contracts at regular margin rate ($1000) and one contract at double rate ($2000))

I would hope it is B), i can buy 101 contracts, which seems like the logical answer!, but you never know, so just making sure!!

(Not that I would load up so much in one instrument, i am keeping the example simple)

 

[ondafringe]

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ant-amount-of-my-money-with-amp.345379/page-2

 

[Millionaire]

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ant-amount-of-my-money-with-amp.345379/page-2

Hmm, based on that thread it seems, you get penalised for having between $100K and $200K in you AMP account.

eg. using the OP's example with $100K in your account you can buy 100 NQ lots.
but with $150K you can only buy 75 lots?

This would seem to be illogical, does not commute!!,

But if those are the rules.. those are the rules. Perhaps all the different AMP software platforms cant do the correct (more logical) way very easily.
And it is much easier for them just to do it this illogical but simpler way instead.

But could catch traders unaware, eg. you make a big profit one day that pushes your account from say $90K to above $100K, you then find you cant trade the same size anymore, even though your account has more money in it

 

[Overnight]

@AMP_Global

AMP Futures margin website page has small print:

"DayTrading margins are twice the displayed amount for account balances exceeding $100K"...

I used to think about things like that, and the logic behind it, as a mental exercise.

But then this always popped right up in my head...

(Not that I would load up so much in one instrument...

...And the thought experiment would go away.

 

[SabreMan]

I used to think about things like that, and the logic behind it, as a mental exercise.
But then this always popped right up in my head...
...And the thought experiment would go away.

Its not just a mental exercise.

I plan to use most of the account margin on a few rare ocassions, but diversified, for example positions in NQ, CL and EUR/USD futures at the same time.

With a $100K account, I can buy 25 NQ lots, 25 CL lots, 25 EUR/USD at the same time if i get signals in all markets at the same time, rare but could happen.

But go above 100K, and I might not be able to hold those positions any more. I might need a lot more money in the account.

 

[Overnight]

Its not just a mental exercise.

I plan to use most of the account margin on a few rare ocassions, but diversified, for example positions in NQ, CL and EUR/USD futures at the same time.

With a $100K account, I can buy 20 NQ lots, 20 CL lots, 20 EUR/USD at the same time if i get signals in all markets at the same time.

But go above 100K, and I cant put those positions on any more.

Then just trim a little off of each position? What is the point of using your max margin available?

And just so you know, with AMP, it is not EUR/USD, it is 6E.

 

[SabreMan]

Then just trim a little off of each position? What is the point of using your max margin available?

And just so you know, with AMP, it is not EUR/USD, it is 6E.

Its not a little you would have to trim size by 50%, if your account goes from say 95K to 105K after a good days profit.

I will just have to transfer funds out of the account when that happens, and hope they process it quick.

 

[Overnight]

Its not a little you would have to trim size by 50%, if your account goes from say 95K to 105K after a good days profit.

A good day's profit? If you bought 10 NQ at 9 AM ET today, and sold at noon, you'd have +$40K.

I will just have to transfer funds out of the account when that happens, and hope they process it quick.

Yes, that is certainly a viable option. ACH is quick, the money is out within 24 hours of request.

 

[Millionaire]

I this is all true, the situation is a little bit absurd.

Even if you want to clamp down on leverage. A $180K account should always be able to trade at least the same number of lots as a $100K account.
I can understand not offering more, because perhaps a broker like AMP want to clamp down on accounts taking too much risk.
But a $180K account shouldn't have a max position limit that is *less* than a $100K account.

 

[Millionaire]

One possible (and better) way to do it would be a linear scale.

100K balance (or less), margin would be regular day trade margin.

101K balance, margin would increase to 101% of the regular day trade trade margin.
..
120K balance, margin would increase to 120% of the regular day trade trade margin.
..
150K balance, margin would increase to 150%
..
200K account and above, margin would increase to 200%

This way you can always trade the same number of maximum lots, and don't have the odd situation where you suddenly lose 50% of your buying power when the account goes a bit above 100K.

This should also be easy for the AMP team to implement.