America's crushing surge of student debt has bred a disturbing new phenomenon

[Banjo]

After a decade of repayments, Aguirre still diverts $512 a month to loans and owes $20,000.

http://www.businessinsider.com/amer...-has-bred-a-disturbing-new-phenomenon-2015-10

 

[stevegee58]

The thing I hate most about this issue is the pictures of protesters with signs demanding "forgive student debt".

Clearly taking on that debt in the first place was a foolish decision. But making the conscious, adult decision to do so and then turning around and declaring it somehow "unfair" is reprehensible.

At least these parents still carrying student loans are wisely advising their own kids to do community college for 2 years to get started.

 

[cjbuckley4]

The thing I hate most about this issue is the pictures of protesters with signs demanding "forgive student debt".

Clearly taking on that debt in the first place was a foolish decision. But making the conscious, adult decision to do so and then turning around and declaring it somehow "unfair" is reprehensible.

At least these parents still carrying student loans are wisely advising their own kids to do community college for 2 years to get started.

There's nothing "reprehensible" about taking on debt to improve your situation. There's a reason why the concept of a student loan exists. The only thing I find unfair here is the fact you seem to believe there is no place for low income freshmen and sophomores at expensive schools. This is coming from someone with a private education and zero debt. College is becoming a joke at the expense of the middle and lower class, if you want to get mad about anything, make it the initial cost, not the kids who are force to forgo a large chunk of their future income to receive the best education they can. 24 out of the 25 best schools in the country are extremely expensive, and the one that isn't requires conscription. You don't want to live in a world where people with my socioeconomic background are the only people who can afford a high level education, trust me.

 

[stevegee58]

You misread my post. Knowingly taking on debt and then demanding debt forgiveness is what I consider reprehensible.

Taking on $50K of debt for an art history major is unwise since you'll clearly never be able to pay it back. But it's your choice. What I hate most is not taking responsibility for your choices.

 

[stevegee58]

There's nothing "reprehensible" about taking on debt to improve your situation. There's a reason why the concept of a student loan exists. The only thing I find unfair here is the fact you seem to believe there is no place for low income freshmen and sophomores at expensive schools. This is coming from someone with a private education and zero debt. College is becoming a joke at the expense of the middle and lower class, if you want to get mad about anything, make it the initial cost, not the kids who are force to forgo a large chunk of their future income to receive the best education they can. 24 out of the 25 best schools in the country are extremely expensive, and the one that isn't requires conscription. You don't want to live in a world where people with my socioeconomic background are the only people who can afford a high level education, trust me.

1. There *is* a place for low income students in expensive schools. The Ivies allocate money every year to take in low income students who show merit.
2. Average colleges (i.e. not Ivies) used to be affordable and now they're not and the reason is simple: government meddling in the form of low interest uncollateralized loans and loan guarantees. Just because someone who can't afford something is "deserving" doesn't mean the government needs to do something about it.

 

[cjbuckley4]

It appears we probably agree on more points than I originally interpreted. My concern is the rising cost more than people being willing to take on debt. The Ivies are pretty generous to low income families, but still, maybe it's who I associate with, but I feel like a lot of kids I've met here are from prep school backgrounds. Point two is where I tend to take exception. The government does have a responsibility to make education attainable, just like the schools themselves do. They're both remiss.

 

[stevegee58]

Full disclosure: I'm a small-L libertarian with 2 grown kids with student loans.

Government loans created a tuition bubble. College was already affordable and scholarships were available to meritorious low-income students.
Then the government steps in and wants everyone to go to college. Now we have a situation where almost nobody can afford it without a government loan! It's insane!

 

[der_kommissar]

Full disclosure: I'm a small-L libertarian with 2 grown kids with student loans.

Government loans created a tuition bubble. College was already affordable and scholarships were available to meritorious low-income students.
Then the government steps in and wants everyone to go to college. Now we have a situation where almost nobody can afford it without a government loan! It's insane!

Yes, and you've reached the crux of the problem...in an economy that demands ever expanding growth of debt, students have just become the latest pawns...where did all of the credit growth come from post-2008? Student loans, auto loans.

 

[cjbuckley4]

I think it's difficult to cast blame in absolute terms. I'm hesitant to blame the government for subsidizing education because it's my belief that they should...I'm more of a small L Leninist, I suppose. I see how government loans could and likely did exacerbate a tuition bubble, but I think a more plausible explanation is that the number of good colleges remains finite while the number of kids applying and competitiveness have steadily increased. That's why you see lower acceptance rates and--by extension--costs increase as demand goes up. I imagine there's a confluence of factors that have caused this ridiculous rise in costs, but my main concern is my belief that if you just send rich kids to good schools, there's no possible outcome other than income inequality and continued hegemony for families who can afford to pay.

 

[fhl]

There's nothing "reprehensible" about taking on debt to improve your situation. There's a reason why the concept of a student loan exists. The only thing I find unfair here is the fact you seem to believe there is no place for low income freshmen and sophomores at expensive schools. This is coming from someone with a private education and zero debt. College is becoming a joke at the expense of the middle and lower class, if you want to get mad about anything, make it the initial cost, not the kids who are force to forgo a large chunk of their future income to receive the best education they can. 24 out of the 25 best schools in the country are extremely expensive, and the one that isn't requires conscription. You don't want to live in a world where people with my socioeconomic background are the only people who can afford a high level education, trust me.

The primary reason university education costs so much is that there has been an extra $1 trillion of demand for those services provided by student loans. Schools can charge anything because a gov't guaranteed loan will be provided to use the service.